Understanding God’s election

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G

GWH

Groovy
#14,961
Oct 19, 2024
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#14,961
studier said:
Didn't catch it in time. They seem to be continually working through server issues or something and I'm hitting Post reply a few times thinking I'm missing it but the system is malfunctioning as I'm doing so. Thanks for the advice.
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More like sympathy.
I guess you have noticed that I completed my systematic study of the DOE on the Hermeneutics thread
and am now applying the results (posted on our website <truthseekersfellowship.com>) to UGE and
other relevant threads. Others can feel free to use it as a reference also.
The Romans 1-11 study is in Lesson 10 and more is included in Part V of Lesson 2.
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#14,962
Mar 17, 2022
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#14,962
GWH said:
The concerns of those who accept TULIP—to affirm the sovereignty of God and the inability of souls to earn salvation—are valid, but the solutions are problematic, because they deny or ignore Scripture teaching the love of God for all sinners and the moral accountability of sinners for rejecting the love of God, thereby effectively perverting the Gospel (Gal. 5:6) and impugning God’s justness/righteousness (Psa. 33:5, Isa. 9:7).

The apparent reasons for these errors are threefold: 1. Ignorance of Scripture that contradicts their dogma, such as those teaching the possibility of apostasy, 2. Viewing faith as a meritorious work rather than as the non-meritorious condition of cooperating with God’s grace, and 3. Unconcern about portraying God as unjust by showing favoritism toward the elect. Once these errors are cured by including Scripture supporting MFW, doctrinal harmony is enhanced.
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That is a valid summary of the problems with Calvinism.
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#14,963
Mar 17, 2022
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#14,963
Rufus said:
So, Ishmael, Issac, Jacob, Esau and Pharaoh aren't individuals? You should take your own advice and learn how to read!

And more proof that your reading comp skills need improvement is based on your statement that I bolded in Red! The [whole] nation of Israel was NOT separated from Christ! Only the natural descendants of Abraham were; but not his children of promise. You're so blinded to the truth that you cannot see that there are two Israels spoken of in the passage. Issac and Jacob, being chosen children of promise, were most certainly included in the Abrahamic Covenant; whereas Ishmael and Esau were not!
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I like talking to Calvinists they are feisty folk.

The whole nation of Israel were severed, that's a fact, Rufus.

Israel the nation, the covenant nation, was no longer the chosen nation; are you in denial of this?

Paul said the following.

Romans 9:1-5
For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren,
my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons,
and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,
whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever.

Is that first paragraph it states.

"my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons,
and the glory"

Was the nation of Israel chosen in the first instance to be the sons, the glory, and the covenants?
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#14,964
Mar 17, 2022
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#14,964
GWH said:
If you notice it in time, you can delete with the message "duplicate".
At least that worked for me earlier.
(Am I telling YOU how to do something?! :^)
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I have a similar problem to you GWH.

If my flat mate is on his play station then I can't post to CF, the post just hangs.

You can tell by looking at the top right of the screen, blue bars means you have not submitted the post.

No play station there is never a problem.
 
S

studier

Well-known member
#14,965
Apr 18, 2024
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#14,965
Election Scriptures:

The verb form used is: eklegomai (eklegō)

Occurrences in the BGT Manuscript (Combines the BNT - Novum Testamentum Graece, Nestle-Aland 28th Edition. Copyright (c) 2014 Deutsch Bibelgesellschaft, Stuttgart and the LXT - LXX Septuaginta (Old Greek Jewish Scriptures) edited by Alfred Rahlfs. Copyright © 1935 by the Württembergische Bibelanstalt / Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft (German Bible Society), Stuttgart.)
  • 148x (126 OC; 22 NC)
Definition from BDAG Lexicon (just the main points):
1. to pick out someone or something, choose (for oneself)
2. to make a choice in accordance with significant preference, select someone/something for oneself,
3. gather in a crop, gather

Summary of the NC Scriptures (I'm including the choices made by NC people which I did not do in the OC Summary due to the number of verses involved):
  • God Chose:
    • The Lord chose the elect men Mark13:20 (statement in context of eschatological judgment)
    • Jesus chose 12 Apostles (Including Judas) Luke6:13; John6:70; John15:16 (and His Apostles did not choose Jesus) (Jesus chose and placed them to bear lasting fruit in ministry); John15:19 (Jesus chose them from the kosmos)
      • Jesus later excluded Judas John13:18; Acts1:2
    • Jesus is God’s Son, God’s Chosen Luke9:35 (this is not in all manuscripts and is a substantival participle, so the search of the verb is picking it up)
    • God chose the fathers of the nation Israel Acts13:7
    • Peter says God chose him to [first] proclaim the Gospel for the Gentiles to hear and believe Acts15:7
    • God chose the foolish and weak things of the kosmos to shame the wise men and the strong things, and God chose the insignificant things, despised things, the things not existing to abolish the existing things 1Cor1:27-28 (context of God's choosing is the things of the Gospel and the type of people who believe)
    • Before the founding/beginning of the kosmos, God chose [men] in Christ to be holy and blameless in His presence Eph1:4
    • God chose poor men of the kosmos, rich in faith men and heirs of the kingdom He promised to men who love Him James2:5
  • Christians Chose:
    • Mary chose the good portion/share Luke10:42
    • Men chose the best seats at a wedding feast per Jesus’ parable Luke14:7
    • Believers pray for the Lord to show whom He chose to replace Judas Acts1:24
    • Many disciples chose 7 from among them to serve Acts6:5
    • The Apostles and Elders in Jerusalem chose men to send to Antioch Acts15:22; Acts15:25
 
S

studier

Well-known member
#14,966
Apr 18, 2024
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#14,966
Although there are many verses to look at with noun forms of words from the verb eklegō, it strikes me how there is so much argument based upon so little Scripture having to do with God choosing much that pertains to all the argument.
 
S

studier

Well-known member
#14,967
Apr 18, 2024
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#14,967
Fixed a verse reference Acts13:7 s/b Acts13:17

Summary of NC Occurrences:
  • God Chose:
    • The Lord chose the elect men Mark13:20 (statement in context of eschatological judgment)
    • Jesus chose 12 Apostles (including Judas) Luke6:13; John6:70; John15:16 (and His Apostles did not choose Jesus) (Jesus chose and placed them to bear lasting fruit in ministry); John15:19 (Jesus chose them from the kosmos)
    • Jesus later excluded Judas John13:18; Acts1:2
    • Jesus is God’s Son, God’s Chosen Luke9:35 (this is not in all manuscripts and is a substantival participle, so the search of the verb is picking it up)
    • God chose the fathers of the nation Israel Acts13:17
    • Peter says God chose him to [first] proclaim the Gospel for the Gentiles to hear and believe Acts15:7
    • God chose the foolish and weak things of the kosmos to shame the wise men and the strong things, and God chose the insignificant things, despised things, the things not existing to abolish the existing things 1Cor1:27-28 (context of God's choosing is the things of the Gospel and the type of people who believe)
    • Before the founding/beginning of the kosmos, God chose [men] in Christ to be holy and blameless in His presence Eph1:4
    • God chose poor men of the kosmos, rich in faith men and heirs of the kingdom He promised to men who love Him James2:5
  • Christians Chose:
    • Mary chose the good portion/share Luke10:42
    • Men chose the best seats at a wedding feast per Jesus’ parable Luke14:7
    • Believers pray for the Lord to show whom He chose to replace Judas Acts1:24
    • Many disciples chose 7 from among them to serve Acts6:5
    • The Apostles and Elders in Jerusalem chose men to send to Antioch Acts15:22; Acts15:25
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#14,968
Feb 17, 2024
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#14,968
Inquisitor said:
I like talking to Calvinists they are feisty folk.

The whole nation of Israel were severed, that's a fact, Rufus.

Israel the nation, the covenant nation, was no longer the chosen nation; are you in denial of this?

Paul said the following.

Romans 9:1-5
For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren,
my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons,
and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,
whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever.

Is that first paragraph it states.

"my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons,
and the glory"

Was the nation of Israel chosen in the first instance to be the sons, the glory, and the covenants?
Click to expand...
You still don't read too swell! ALL Israelites were not severed! Read Rom 11:5! And that's a fact!

However, I do agree that ethnic Israel is no longer God's covenant nation! However, God's elect Jewish remnant, under this New Covenant economy, is still in covenant relationship with God, along with all the elect Gentiles; for both are the Israel of God.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#14,969
Jul 3, 2015
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"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8
 
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