Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

No, it means the estate of man was altered as a result of sin.

Many deny this. They are called Pelagian heretics.

 

[Magenta]

Or a man who God had made Himself known to, who by that grace then believed in God, and thereby became one of His chosen.

How can God make Himself known to one who can neither receive nor comprehend the Spiritual things of God?

 

[Cameron143]

Many deny this. They are called Pelegian heretics.

Mostly they are simply tied to their position at all costs.

 

[Magenta]

by teaching Him and upon his hearing and learning and believing (by choice as some rightly say) he's entered into Christ and given God Spirit by grace through faith.

Obviously like many you try to make it sound like people say men don't make choices. You simply show a level of ignorance that may be born also of your willingness to misrepresent what others believe. I wonder why so many people who promote the free will of the natural man are continually dishonest about this. And just to make clear = Since you obviously have missed it in the many many many times that it has been said: men make choices out of their nature.

 

[Kroogz]

No, it means the estate of man was altered as a result of sin.

And God did something about that.

 

[Cameron143]

And God did something about that.

What did God do?

 

[Rufus]

Actually I was raised with the Oral traditions of Enoch, unlike the manuscript, more like how we read from Jesus, Disciples, Paul, Jude, John. Enoch was a big part of the Torah we had to learn and obvious so was Moshe [Moses in English].

We know in Creation the [parent, or stage of procreating] is clearly evident throughout the first 2 Chapters of Genesis. So I will stick with God allowed Pharaoh to harden his heart before God made it permanent...hence I choose the Chicken over the Egg.

Then you would be dead wrong! I take it that you didn't bother to read my 12,725? (Not surprised.) But if you had you would have learned from the chronological timeline of the Exodus narrative that God's decree long preceded the first mention of Pharaoh happily fulfilling his divinely-appointed destiny in that decree by hardening his own heart.

 

[Rufus]

That has no bearing on the message Paul preached about God making man to be able to seek after Him.

Where does Paul say such a thing that would contradict what he wrote in Rom 3?

 

[Magenta]

What did God do?

I can give a clue! "The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

 

[Magenta]

What did God do?

I can give a clue! "The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

 

[lrs68]

Then you would be dead wrong! I take it that you didn't bother to read my 12,725? (Not surprised.) But if you had you would have learned from the chronological timeline of the Exodus narrative that God's decree long preceded the first mention of Pharaoh happily fulfilling his divinely-appointed destiny in that decree by hardening his own heart.

I did read and quoted it plus asked the same original question what Verse shows God first hardening Pharaoh's heart before Pharaoh hardened his own heart?

 

[lrs68]

Where does Paul say such a thing that would contradict what he wrote in Rom 3?

So why Does Paul claim in Acts 17 that God made man to [in Verse 27 specifically] that they (man) should seek God?


26 and he made of one every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed seasons, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 that they should seek God, if haply they might feel after him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us:

 

[Rufus]

Luke wrote what Paul preached and Paul penned the Letters. So Paul is the common denominator outside the obvious [Holy Spirit].

The fact is God made man with the ability to seek Him. Actually speaking here, God is forcing man to think about Him but man has the ability to reject God like Paul describes in Romans 1.

And from whom did the Holy Spirit receive his revelation?

And there's no text in the bible that says dead men have the ability to seek God. If they naturally had that kind of innate ability, why would God supernaturally have to draw anyone to Christ?

 

[Cameron143]

I can give a clue! "The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

It was just as good the 2nd time.

 

[lrs68]

And God did something about that.

I'm guessing you mean by estate removed from Garden but they seem to be thinking Heaven.

 

[lrs68]

And from whom did the Holy Spirit receive his revelation?

And there's no text in the bible that says dead men have the ability to seek God. If they naturally had that kind of innate ability, why would God supernaturally have to draw anyone to Christ?

Acts 17 says man was created to be able to seek after God but I understand your denial of Scriptural facts.

 

[BillyBob]

Luke wrote what Paul preached and Paul penned the Letters. So Paul is the common denominator outside the obvious [Holy Spirit].

The fact is God made man with the ability to seek Him. Actually speaking here, God is forcing man to think about Him but man has the ability to reject God like Paul describes in Romans 1.

Read the end of Paul's greeting Rom 1:7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:
Ask yourself, who did the calling - that they should be saints. (set apart).
If God does in fact call people, do they have the power to refuse?

 

[Rufus]

I did read and quoted it plus asked the same original question what Verse shows God first hardening Pharaoh's heart before Pharaoh hardened his own heart?

I have a really tough time believing you read it! If you had, you would have learned that there are three (3) verses that speak to God hardening Pharaoh's and those three precede that teach Pharaoh willingly complied with God's decree. The very first mention of Pharaoh hardening his own heart occurs in Ex 8:15, along with 8:32 and 9:34. But the first mention of God's decree in hardening the king's heart is first found in 4:21 then again in 7:3; 9:12.

But hey...enjoy your illusion.

 

[rogerg]

Acts 17 is about naturally and not spiritually in reference to how God created man to seek Him.

It's merely a part of the human nature through Creation that draws man to seek God. The only way man becomes spiritually connected is through the Salvation obtained by the works done via Jesus Christ.

Seeking God through Creation to become "spiritually connected" does not occur/proceed in that manner - at least
finding the true God doesn't. There are, however, many false gods and false gospels that can and are found that way. Instead, through Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, one is drawn to seek, and to find, the true God.

 

[Magenta]

And from whom did the Holy Spirit receive his revelation?

And there's no text in the bible that says dead men have the ability to seek God. If they naturally had that kind of innate ability, why would God supernaturally have to draw anyone to Christ?

Well I must add a major ugh to this because you do know, do you not, that there are those here who insist that supernatural intervention and/or revelation is not required.