I have and I still don't know what you're driving at! What specifically do you need to understand? Last call. Spell out clearly or we'll forget that 13,853 exists.
Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
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I have and I still don't know what you're driving at! What specifically do you need to understand? Last call. Spell out clearly or we'll forget that 13,853 exists.
***predestination***
Is nothing more than "PREPARED DESTINATION", and has nothing to do with created inside of time human pre-birth whatever anything.
This FUTURE destination has been PREPARED by God according to His plan of salvation that was made before time or creation.
This DESTINATION may or may not be CHOSEN according to the willingness of the hearer of the Gospel truth to enter into the New Covenant of life and peace.
The very nature of the term "predestination" needs to be reviewed and corrected and tightly constrained in terms of semantics.
If one actually thinks about "Sovereign" Grace......There would be no need for the cross. In His Sovereignty ,He could pick and choose at His leisure. No need for the cross. No need for the Word.......Just pick some.
Judicial/righteous Grace. Only those who Go through HIS CROSS receive Grace(salvation).He graciously(sovereignly) rains on the wicked.
John 3:16
Acts 16:31
Yes, that's your theory, but basic Compatibilism attempts to reconcile Free Will with Determinism, so what is your concept of Compatibilism, and your view of the human will that you used to "choose to repent and believe the gospel"?
that’s how repentance works as your willing to listen to his word he calls you to better behavior as you begin to accept and he reveals things to you within through the spirits conviction in your heart
Q: Explain these 3 views of Grace:
These three theological concepts relate to how God's grace operates in salvation, but they differ significantly in their interpretations:
Q: Does Free Grace believe men choose to believe in Christ:
Yes, Free Grace theology holds that individuals have the ability to choose to believe in Christ. It emphasizes that salvation is received solely through faith in Jesus Christ, without requiring works or perseverance to maintain it. Free Grace theologians distinguish between salvation and discipleship, meaning that while faith secures eternal life, following Christ in obedience is a separate matter.
There is some variation within Free Grace views on election, with some proponents believing that God's election is based on His foreknowledge of who will believe, while others see election as corporate rather than individual. However, the core belief remains that faith is a personal choice rather than something irresistibly imposed by God.
These three theological concepts relate to how God's grace operates in salvation, but they differ significantly in their interpretations:
- Prevenient Grace: This is the idea that God's grace is extended to all people before they make a decision to follow Him. It enables individuals to respond to God's call while still preserving their free will. This concept is commonly associated with Arminian theology and is a key belief in Methodist and Pentecostal traditions.
- Irresistible Grace: This is a Calvinist doctrine that asserts that God's grace, when applied to the elect, cannot be resisted. Those whom God has chosen for salvation will inevitably come to faith because the Holy Spirit regenerates them, making their response to God's call certain.
- Free Grace: This theological perspective emphasizes that salvation is entirely a gift from God, received through faith alone, without the necessity of works or ongoing repentance. It is often contrasted with Lordship Salvation, which holds that true faith will result in a transformed life and obedience to Christ.
Q: Does Free Grace believe men choose to believe in Christ:
Yes, Free Grace theology holds that individuals have the ability to choose to believe in Christ. It emphasizes that salvation is received solely through faith in Jesus Christ, without requiring works or perseverance to maintain it. Free Grace theologians distinguish between salvation and discipleship, meaning that while faith secures eternal life, following Christ in obedience is a separate matter.
There is some variation within Free Grace views on election, with some proponents believing that God's election is based on His foreknowledge of who will believe, while others see election as corporate rather than individual. However, the core belief remains that faith is a personal choice rather than something irresistibly imposed by God.
“Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
Romans 10:17 NIV
“This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:3-4
“The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”
2 Peter 3:9 NIV
“He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,
but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
Mark 16:15-16 NIV
“For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?
And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
Romans 10:12-15, 17
“so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.”
Isaiah 55:11 NIV
It reconciles really well . part of Gods sovereign plan is for mankind to choose the good freely not as puppets but as fellow people , children made in his likeness and image. Part of his plan is man’s freedom and. Not doing the evil but the good that’s in the world
this is how he determined thinggs beforehand but notice the people are still meant to seek him because he’s near to them all
““The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. ‘
For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
(because of this pre determined thing coming )For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.””
Acts 17:24, 26-31 NIV
Gods there near to everyone and will accept anyone if they turn to him
“Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right.”
Acts 10:34-35 NIV
His plan is what he said we need to hear about it and then believe and follow.
That sounds pretty simple for some here.
Yeah we need to choose this part
“She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said.
But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”
“Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, but few things are needed—or indeed only one. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.””
Luke 10:39-42 NIV
Jesus had fed thousands when there was no food but she was busy and distracted trying to prepare things but Mary understood , she had been listening to jesus when he spoke and she was commended that she chose the right thing when Jesus was around , listening to the lords word that promises believers salvation ….and freedom
“To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.””
John 8:31-32
This saves souls when this happens
“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.”
Luke 15:1 KJV
then they’ll understand he came for them to save thier souls from the condemnation upon all sinners
Yes, I see it quoted that the Truth sets us free, which is what I said.
Jesus being the Truth. Of course many here do not believe what Jesus said.
Jesus being the Truth. Of course many here do not believe what Jesus said.
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.””
John 8:31-32
“If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
John 14:15-17, 21-24 KJV
It's interesting how few seem to contemplate His Plan. It's simply a word that means something planned in advance, an advance plan. So much of what's being stated as you've identified is what's in God's Plan and how things are taking place according to it - Rom8:28; Rom9:11; Eph1:11; Eph3:11; 2Tim1:9
2 Timothy 1 verse 9 He has saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Why wouldn't there be any need? The many for whom Christ died wouldn't need to be justified? If so, why not?
Are you saying you disagree with Kroogz believing he has a better idea than God's plan?
First of all the biblical doctrine of Compatibilism does not attempt to reconcile "Free Will" with "Determinism" because freewill is not taught in the bible. Therefore, Compatibilism teaches that God's will is freely and willingly obeyed by all His free moral agents. Click on the link below for definitions on "free moral agency" and "freewill".
https://reformed.online/free-will-and-free-agency/
Secondly, just how Compatibilism works in the real world is a divine mystery which cannot be grasped by finite, sinful minds. It's beyond human comprehension to know precisely what happens when God's will intersects with any of his moral agents' (Prov 20:24).
Thirdly, there are numerous biblical examples that teach that God's will integrates seamlessly in the background with man's , and that all men ultimately, freely and willingly perform God's purpose for them either for better or for worse. Such examples would include the Fall, all of Joseph's hardships brought about by his brothers' sins against him, God's raising up of pharaoh to accomplish His purpose, God restraining Abimlech's evil intentions toward Sarah, Balaam's blessing upon Israel, Abigail's encounter with David to stave off his wrath upon Nabal, Judas' betrayal of Christ, God decreeing all that happened to his Son during his first advent, etc., etc.
So...just how did I many moons ago make my choice to repent and believe the gospel? Thankfully by God's effectual grace! God's particular, eternal, familial love for me which motivated the outpouring of his saving grace upon me made the difference between my acceptance of the gospel truth and other sinners' rejection of it. This grace opened my blind eyes and shined His light into the black darkness of my heart to the extent that I was compelled to believe the revealed truth in His Word! You and other FWers would view this as God "coercing" or "forcing" me to accept his truth; while I look at it as God rescuing a totally helpless, hapless human being who was his own worst enemy -- and would still be 'till this day if it weren't for God's faithfulness in supplying his infinite grace!
Kroogz obviously believes his thoughts are higher than God's and his ways better than God's! I believe this worship of Self is called idolatry!