Understanding God’s election

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studier said:
Romans does teach that sin is universal and that all need Jesus Christ.

Romans also teaches that God has never left Himself without witness that men are unable to comprehend.

Hebrews 11 teaches that there have been men and women of faith throughout history since Abel.
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What verses do you believe support your 2nd claim?
 
studier said:
Romans does teach that sin is universal and that all need Jesus Christ.

Romans also teaches that God has never left Himself without witness that men are unable to comprehend.

Hebrews 11 teaches that there have been men and women of faith throughout history since Abel.
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AS long as there has existed the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, there has been salvation to meet the need of whomsoever had need of it, withholding nothing, "He did not withhold His Son (Rom 8:32).
 
studier said:
Did you read @Rufus #13,816 & Rom1-3? As you say, there are many kinds of witness.
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I realize I may have come into the middle of a conversation, but I responded to a post that referenced no previous text and that posited 3 claims. You are under no obligation to answer my questions, but if you posit claims on a public forum, curious people likely will have questions.
 
Cameron143 said:
I realize I may have come into the middle of a conversation, but I responded to a post that referenced no previous text and that posited 3 claims. You are under no obligation to answer my questions, but if you posit claims on a public forum, curious people likely will have questions.
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There's really no conversation for you to come into the middle of. @Rufus posted something unaddressed to anyone specific and I responded to it in the same unaddressed manner.

I've pointed you to a specific part of his post and a section of Scripture he's drawing from to answer your question. Within my answer to you I tied the 3 types of revelation he mentioned to the witness of God that I mentioned. Maybe this was not clear enough and hopefully now it is.
 
studier said:
There's really no conversation for you to come into the middle of. @Rufus posted something unaddressed to anyone specific and I responded to it in the same unaddressed manner.

I've pointed you to a specific part of his post and a section of Scripture he's drawing from to answer your question. Within my answer to you I tied the 3 types of revelation he mentioned to the witness of God that I mentioned. Maybe this was not clear enough and hopefully now it is.
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All that is fine, but I'm trying to figure out what you mean in what you said; specifically, what the ongoing witness is, and the extent to which it is known.
 
Cameron143 said:
All that is fine, but I'm trying to figure out what you mean in what you said; specifically, what the ongoing witness is, and the extent to which it is known.
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Rufus said:
"Conclude" from what? Obviously from what he wrote in the first two chapters! And what did he argue in those two chapters? He argued man's depravity from God's three-prong revelation to mankind: From Natural Revelation to all men which pertains to the external world around us that touches all our senses; then from Special Revelation (or more specifically the divinely inspired written code of the Law) as this was revealed to the Jews; then finally from Intuitive Revelation by which God internally revealed his righteous Law by writing the works of that Law on the hearts of all men, especially the Gentiles who basically were not privy to Special Revelation the way OT Israel was. In these we have God's comprehensive three-in-one Revelation of Himself in terms of His attributes, his holy Law and his holy character. This is how Paul could write that all men are without spiritual/moral excuse (Rom 1:20; 2:1). Plus all men are under sin, that is to say, all are under the penalty, power and presence of sin in this world. So, just from these passages alone, we can readily and easily see that Romans 1 applies to a lot more than just a few men or some men.
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Good enough for a start. Now read Rom1-3.
 
Cameron143 said:
All that is fine, but I'm trying to figure out what you mean in what you said; specifically, what the ongoing witness is, and the extent to which it is known.
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John 16~~5“But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6But because I have said these things to you, grief has filled your heart. 7But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the [e]Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: 9regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Equal privilege, equal opportunity for ALL.

The Holy Spirit is not lacking in His witness to the WORLD.
 
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Kroogz said:
John 16~~5“But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6But because I have said these things to you, grief has filled your heart. 7But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the [e]Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: 9regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Equal privilege, equal opportunity for ALL.

The Holy Spirit is not lacking in His witness to the WORLD.
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Great scripture. Has nothing to do with my post, but thanks for sharing.
 
Cameron143 said:
Thanks anyways. All that discussion to learn nothing that could have been summarized in 2 minutes.
Grace and peace.
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Round and round... they can post long paragraph after long paragraph repeatedly and they have still said nothing.
 
[Jos 4:24 KJV]
That all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it [is] mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever.
 
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cv5 said:
[Jos 4:24 KJV]
That all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it [is] mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever.
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I must suppose some think this "might know" amounts to being forced.
 
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