Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

Philippians 3 verse 3; Colossians 2 verse 11; Romans 2 verse 29b ~ For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh. You were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. Circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.

 

[Magenta]

Proverbs 28 verse 26~ “He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool.” Ecclesiastes 7 verse 20~ “For there is not a just man upon the earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.” Matthew 7 verse 18~ “A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.” Philippians 2 verse 13~ “For it is God which worketh in you, both to will and to do of His good pleasure.”

 

[GWH]

So, are you one of the few chosen? How do you know?

1Jo 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

These Scriptures speak of the proof of who is chosen, not by the manner. We know who is chosen by the right results, not by some mysterious unknown manner of choosing.

The Scripture is not about before being chosen, but about afterward.

Before His choosing, all men have sinned and are not His people. After his choosing, all His people are conformed to His Son's image in good faith and works.

The teaching ought be about how we know who is chosen of the Lord, not about how He chooses.

I agree regarding your interpretation of 1 John.
Romans 8:28 does include a reference to God foreknowing who would respond to His calling, but it does not say that God predetermined who would respond and be saved.

 

[Cameron143]

I agree regarding your interpretation of 1 John.
Romans 8:28 does include a reference to God foreknowing who would respond to His calling, but it does not say that God predetermined who would respond and be saved.

It actually just says...whom He did foreknow...not what He foreknew about them. The implication is a foreknowledge of people, and not what they would do.

 

[Rufus]

Me too! We freely love God!!!

But you are loathe to admit that you love him due to his unilateral New Covenant promises. You would also be loathe to admit that you love him because he first loved you! You would also not want to confess that you love God because Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God's truth has set you free FROM your captivity, enslavement and imprisonment to sin, the flesh, the world and the devil. But what you do believe is that "we freely love God" due to the efficacy of man's "freewill".

 

[Rufus]

I agree regarding your interpretation of 1 John.
Romans 8:28 does include a reference to God foreknowing who would respond to His calling, but it does not say that God predetermined who would respond and be saved.

The text does not say what you claim. But the text does say unequivocally and plainly that whom God [fore]knew in eternity, he PREDESTINED to be conformed to the image of Christ.

Rom 8:28-30
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
NIV

For your info, "those" is a personal pronoun. If we changed the wording of v.29 to read, "For all the chosen people God knew in eternity he also predestined...", it would not change the sense of the passage. Lots of "THOSE" in the passage. So...you don't nilly willy get to change the "those" in v.29 to an impersonal pronoun such as "what" because you don't like the force of the passage since it contradicts your false gospel.

 

[GWH]

But you are loathe to admit that you love him due to his unilateral New Covenant promises. You would also be loathe to admit that you love him because he first loved you! You would also not want to confess that you love God because Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God's truth has set you free FROM your captivity, enslavement and imprisonment to sin, the flesh, the world and the devil. But what you do believe is that "we freely love God" due to the efficacy of man's "freewill".

No, we love God because He first loved us (Rom. 5:8) as He does everyone (1Tim. 2:3-4) by providing seeking grace (Matt. 7:7, Tit. 2:11), thereby freeing them from enslavement to sin and hell, if they exercise that efficacy to repent of atheism and reflect His love by loving His Son (John 8:42-47), whereupon God's HS indwells the new convert (Rev. 3:20, 1Cor. 12:13).

 

[GWH]

The text does not say what you claim. But the text does say unequivocally and plainly that whom God [fore]knew in eternity, he PREDESTINED to be conformed to the image of Christ.

Rom 8:28-30
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
NIV

For your info, "those" is a personal pronoun. If we changed the wording of v.29 to read, "For all the chosen people God knew in eternity he also predestined...", it would not change the sense of the passage. Lots of "THOSE" in the passage. So...you don't nilly willy get to change the "those" in v.29 to an impersonal pronoun such as "what" because you don't like the force of the passage since it contradicts your false gospel.

The "predestined" part refers to being conformed to the image of Christ
but does not say it is accomplished by being programmed/determined rather than by persuasion and teaching GW.

 

[Kroogz]

The "predestined" part refers to being conformed to the image of Christ
but does not say it is accomplished by being programmed/determined rather than by persuasion and teaching GW.

Every believer is predestined to be conformed to His Image .....But then you preach the loss of salvation/walking away from salvation/forfeiting salvation. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[studier]

But you are loathe to admit that you love him due to his unilateral New Covenant promises. You would also be loathe to admit that you love him because he first loved you! You would also not want to confess that you love God because Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God's truth has set you free FROM your captivity, enslavement and imprisonment to sin, the flesh, the world and the devil. But what you do believe is that "we freely love God" due to the efficacy of man's "freewill".

You're very odd.

 

[PaulThomson]

I believe he did. Obviously to no avail.

You still haven't answered the question: who was Abraham praying for?

Abraham was praying for the lives and property of the righteous in Sodom and Gommorah.

Gen 18
23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

 

[Cameron143]

Abraham was praying for the lives and property of the righteous in Sodom and Gommorah.

Gen 18
23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

There were 3 righteous people in Sodom, and he was praying for their lives to be spared from the pending destruction. He wasn't concerned for their property. It was going to be destroyed. More specifically, he was praying for Lot and his household. God didn't change His mind because Abraham prayed. He was going to spare Lot's family already.
Moses prayed concerning the children of Israel and God answered His prayer. Why? Because He prayed according to the will of God. Just like 1 John 5:14-15 says.
There is alot to be learned from both prayers for sure. But the easy things aren't the hard things.