Understanding God’s election

[Genez]

It's not TO the Gentiles, it's ABOUT the Jews. A book can be written about you but not to you!!

Paul was one of the very top Jewish theologians that God had drafted to take Gentile believers, and convert them to the ways that Jews had known for centuries. Paul being a Roman citizen was the perfect choice, having known both worlds.

On the other hand...

Jews were not needing as much what the Gentiles needed concerning how to live as people of God.
So, for the Jews?
God drafted Peter to go to the Jews with a simpler message on one hand, but also embedded with revolutionary Church age truths.

In the end, after time passed. God had both teachings merge into one system for all the Church.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

But Romans is MORE than a book. It's a LETTER! It's an EPISTLE! So Paul wrote a personal letter having no original audience in mind? He just wrote stuff TO No One?

Romans 9,10,11 is about and for the Jews, not the Gentiles.

 

[Genez]

You need some serious help! ....

Time to grow up.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

It's obvious you need something to stimulate the few brain cells you have left. Have you considered medicinal marijuana? You're so shot

So this is you trying to win people to your POV.

I spent most of my life in evangelism. This was not how we won people to Christ. I hope this is not how you present the Gospel to the lost. We're done.

 

[Genez]

So this is you trying to win people to your POV.

I spent most of my life in evangelism. This was not how we won people to Christ. I hope this is not how you present the Gospel to the lost. We're done.

He evangelizes like Muslims do...

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

He evangelizes like Muslims do...

Well I can tell you that doesn't work but on a computer keyboard. It sure doesn't work in real life. I have been in hundreds of churches of all denominations and we preached Christ, that Jesus Saves. Most people never knew our denomination, we wanted to see people won for the kingdom. I think that is what upsets me so about Calvinists and their ilk, I see no compassion for the lost, like Jesus has.

 

[Kroogz]

Well I can tell you that doesn't work but on a computer keyboard. It sure doesn't work in real life. I have been in hundreds of churches of all denominations and we preached Christ, that Jesus Saves. Most people never knew our denomination, we wanted to see people won for the kingdom. I think that is what upsets me so about Calvinists and their ilk, I see no compassion for the lost, like Jesus has.

Anybody with any God given sense can see the calvies Defend the doctrine of,"Humans are cow dung." Their witness to the lost becomes just that............ SKUBALA.

 

[Magenta]

From Ephesians 1 According to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, God has made known to us the mystery of His will, which He purposed in Christ before the foundation of the world. In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him Who works out everything by the counsel of His will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory.
.

 

[Kroogz]

The natural man is blinded by the god of this world. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is a lover of darkness. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is a slave to sin. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
Devoid of faith, the natural man's righteous acts are like filthy rags. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
As such, the natural man cannot please God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is of the flesh which profits nothing. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is captive to the will of the devil. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is hostile in his mind toward God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man suppresses the truth in unrighteousness. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man cannot receive the spiritual things of God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man cannot know the spiritual things of God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man does not seek after God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man cannot come to God on his own. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man hears the gospel as foolishness. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is helpless and ungodly. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is by nature a child of wrath. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man cannot submit to God's law. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is dead in his sins. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man is in need of a spiritual rebirth. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The natural man requires heart circumcision so he may love God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.

The Bible teaches that we sin because we are sinners. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that God alone is good. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that all (as natural men) are under the control of the evil one. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that we need to be rescued. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that man’s heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that man is born dead in transgression and sin. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man is held captive by a love for sin. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man will not seek God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man loves the darkness. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man does not understand the things of God. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man continues to willfully live in sin. <= I wonder how many here deny that.
The Bible teaches that the natural man's sinful lifestyle seems right to men. <= I wonder how many here deny that.

All this superpower of men is decimated with one verse.
John 16:9
regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Men don't have as much power as you give them.

 

[fredoheaven]

All this superpower of men is decimated with one verse.
John 16:9
regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Men don't have as much power as you give them.

Thats it! we have to believe in Christ to have life
1 Timothy 1:16 KJV — Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

 

[fredoheaven]

Well I can tell you that doesn't work but on a computer keyboard. It sure doesn't work in real life. I have been in hundreds of churches of all denominations and we preached Christ, that Jesus Saves. Most people never knew our denomination, we wanted to see people won for the kingdom. I think that is what upsets me so about Calvinists and their ilk, I see no compassion for the lost, like Jesus has.

Yes Jesus Saves! not tulip saves

 

[HeIsHere]

I see no compassion for the lost, like Jesus has.

How can they have compassion with that mind set.

All they see are reprobates who can only do evil continually, and their "god" hates those he does not decide to save, deciding to save a few makes him glorious because after all he was not obligated to save any.

Make no mistake this view corrupts the soul, just look how Calvin treated the people of Geneva.

 

[Magenta]

Calvin makes God some He is not, He makes false judgments against the character of God.
I don't understand how one could claim to know God, yet know nothing of His character at all.

Being wrong in some points does not mean wrong in all. Who here has all knowledge? None, I would say. The picture you present of hell is weird. Why would any be looking at hell? The old things pass away and are no more. People paint these gruesome pictures that are so far from what Scripture teaches and expect others to fall in line behind them at the horror. It is emotional manipulation at its worst. Not everyone even believes God would do such a thing to those who are said to perish. Adherents of eternal conscious torment does not present a loving God. Augustine pushed that view above the two others prevalent at the time, and the RCC ate it up, and just like the lie of Satan at the heart of the fall of creation, it persists to this day. In fact, they go hand in hand.

 

[Rufus]

Romans 9,10,11 is about and for the Jews, not the Gentiles.

So this is you trying to win people to your POV.

I spent most of my life in evangelism. This was not how we won people to Christ. I hope this is not how you present the Gospel to the lost. We're done.

Well...you finally got something right. Congrats! However, I wonder if you also see in those three chapters a large amount of theological and practical applications to the original audience to whom Paul was writing...which just happened to be Gentile believers?

It seems to me you should have spent more prayerful time in the Word of God, then you would know what you're talking about.

Also, Whatever church you are attending, I'm wondering if it's one of the cult-like community that indoctrinates or brainwashes their members? My mind doesn't compute cognitive disconnects, such as the stunt you pulled with the Isa 66 passage in which I made an observation, only to be answered with a totally irrelevant passage. Is this what your church teaches you to do when someone makes a case or point or argument about passage "A", and then have you been instructed to reply with passage "X" which a total non sequitur? Has the leadership in your church conned you into believing that such a tactic is a legitimate reply? I have to wonder in all your many years of self-professed "evangelism" that when you encounter a tough question by an unbeliever who brought a specific text to you if you pull the same switching game on them instead of addressing the specif text brought to you?

Let me know when you read 7115 & 7153. But don't waste your time and mine by jerking me around with non-sequiturs. If you can't address 1Jn 2:2 on its terms and my argument on its own merits, I will completely understand.

Have a pleasant evening....

 

[Genez]

It's what comes out from between their "two-lips" that condemns their teaching.

 

[Rufus]

Trip over your own shoelaces much?

Suggestion:
Make sense if you want to be listened to.

Another useless post. You just didn't have the ["freewill"]power to address the examples I gave in my last post. This thread has its share of empty suits....

 

[Kroogz]

It's what comes out from between their "two-lips" that condemns their teaching.

Exactly.

The lord Jesus Christ died for all. And all of mankind have equal privilege and equal opportunity to receive His salvation.

Sad that there are BELIEVERS here that foam at the mouth over this truth.

 

[Rufus]

Romans 9,10,11 is about and for the Jews, not the Gentiles.

By the way, if those three chapters about all about and for the Jews , why is Paul writing to Gentile believers? Wouldn't those three chapters be virtually irrelevant to his original audience?

 

[Rufus]

Exactly.

The lord Jesus Christ died for all. And all of mankind have equal privilege and equal opportunity to receive His salvation.

Sad that there are BELIEVERS here that foam at the mouth over this truth.

How did all that equality work out with the Egyptians when God came down to rescue his people? And how did it work out for the two groups of Israelites who were involved with the Bronze Serpent episode in the wilderness? And what about the people in Mat 7:23 who Jesus never knew --- ever!? Since He never knew them, then how could he ever desire to give them eternal life (Jn 5:21)

 

[Magenta]

Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?