Understanding God’s election

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Genez said:
But the problem is this...

How could use any man as His "pen," if that person is totally corrupt?
How could He give the Prophet the words to write?

Do you blow your nose with used toilet paper?
God is not going to have the writers of Scripture be corrupt while receiving His words to write.
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God moved them to write precisely what He wanted written. It didn't originate with the men who did the writing.

[2Pe 1:21 KJV] 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
 
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Inquisitor said:
They had to look because they would die if they did not look.

There was no decision making going on just panic.
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They didn't just look at anything. Did they look at a camel? Nope. Did they look at a palm tree? Nope. They looked at the serpent because God said it would lead to their healing.

So let's reflect. People heard the word of God, placed their faith in what God said would save them, and were saved. Sounds like Romans 10:17 and Ephesians 2:8-9.
 
Genez said:
But the problem is this...

How could use any man as His "pen," if that person is totally corrupt?
How could He give the Prophet the words to write?

Do you blow your nose with used toilet paper?
God is not going to have the writers of Scripture be corrupt while receiving His words to write.
Click to expand...

Let me restate my reply a little better. The "become" was relative to, and caused by, the fall in the Garden, not to one's birth, hence
the "all" in Psalm 14:3, which "become", became manifested to all of us.
 
HeIsHere said:
How is it man centered?
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After you're read my 5934, I'm still waiting for an intelligent, coherent reply to the problem that exists between man-centered FWT and Prayer! Perhaps you missed my 5554 I posted three days ago? Why don't you take your best personal shot at that incongruity?
 
rogerg said:
God moved them to write precisely what He wanted written. It didn't originate with the men who did the writing.

[2Pe 1:21 KJV] 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
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So? God would have a warlock write Scripture while he was casting a spell? ... @rogerg just said yes to that.
 
Also, while I think of it, all freewillers, I presented another huge problem between the man-centered FTW and unregenerate man's "freewill" choice save himself. I asked GWH if he thought God is pleased with such decisions. And predictably, he appealed to Lk 15:10 for his answer. Yet, just as predictably he forgot all about Rom 8:8 which basically teaches that those who live according to flesh (which is all that any unregenerate person can do) cannot please God.

So...how can God, all at once and simultaneously, be pleased with fleshly choices that were made apart from the indwelling Holy Spirit and not be pleased with them?
 
Genez said:
Not so! Is a person who is born dumb? To become dumb after he is born?
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But he became dumb at birth due to the Fall. Don't you know that all the suffering, misery, pain, tears, sorrow and ultimately death are caused by sin?
 
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And, freewillers, I'm still waiting for an intelligent, coherent answer to Jesus' four words in Mat 7:23, i.e. "I never knew you". Since you freewillers understand Rom 8:9; 11:2 to be teaching God's prescience which you think forms the basis to his election, then how is it that Christ won't be omniscient on judgment day in Mat 7:23?

OR...if you think Mat 7:23 isn't referring to Christ's omniscience when he returns in Glory to judge the living and dead, then reconcile that understanding with your opposing views on Rom 8:29; 11:2 which you insist is dealing with God's omniscience.

OR...if you think Mat 7:23 is dealing with the eternal absence or deprivation of Christ's personal, intimate, covenantal affection (as Genez does or did) , then how can this be since God loves everyone unconditionally throughout eternity? And if you think this is what Mat 7:23 is truly teaching, then why do you arbitrarily read "omniscience" into Rom 8:29; 11:2, etc.?

WAKE UP, freewillers! Y'all actin' like a bunch of DEAD people! Give me some intelligent, rational, coherent and biblically-based answers already!
 
Rufus said:
But FWT does not reflect the gospel of Christ. It is totally man-centered, since God's will is SUBSERVIENT to man's. God is reduced to a hand-wringing, brow-sweating, cosmic crystal ball gazer whose only role in an individual's salvation is to observe and react to man's choices. God isn't running the universe; the inmates in the asylum are!

In fact, in FWT God isn't even truly omniscient since He has to learn through his crystal ball gazing what man is going to do BEFORE he reacts.
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:LOL:

Here I was expecting to read an in-depth well thought out refutation of biblical theology.
 
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HeIsHere said:
:LOL:

Here I was expecting to read an in-depth well thought out refutation of biblical theology.
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I don't know why you would ever have thought that. I was describing FWT theology which has nothing in common with biblical theology. In fact, any resemblance between the two is purely imaginary.
 
Rufus said:
Also, while I think of it, all freewillers, I presented another huge problem between the man-centered FTW and unregenerate man's "freewill" choice save himself. I asked GWH if he thought God is pleased with such decisions. And predictably, he appealed to Lk 15:10 for his answer. Yet, just as predictably he forgot all about Rom 8:8 which basically teaches that those who live according to flesh (which is all that any unregenerate person can do) cannot please God.

So...how can God, all at once and simultaneously, be pleased with fleshly choices that were made apart from the indwelling Holy Spirit and not be pleased with them?
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Why is unregenerate man having no free will?
What causes it?
 
Genez said:
Why is unregenerate man having no free will?
What causes it?
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That question has been answered NUMEROUS times on this thread. But I'll answer in another way: Why were the ancient Israelites in Egypt unable to walk out of Egypt and leave their bondage in their own power?
 
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