Understanding God’s election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Oct 19, 2024
1,861
451
83
You making unlearned errant comments.
Not at all; that is exactly what Calvin (who regurgitated Augustine) taught, (cf. TULIP) because he was not concerned about impugning or blaspheming the justness/alllovingness of God--as though God were schizophrenic.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,390
1,006
113
@Genez



No its Spiritual Israel, which includes Gentiles Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life

Christ didnt just shed His Blood for ethnic jews
The atonement correctly understood is that Jesus was sent only to the Jews.

The atonement was for the nation of Israel and that was the fulfillment of their law.

The law belonged to Israel and was never given to the Gentiles.

The Gentiles were grafted at a later time into Jesus Christ.

Israel was the cultivated olive tree.

Paul explained that reconciliation of Israel, in depth, in Romans.
 
Dec 7, 2024
161
56
28
So many here have that fictional, make believe Satan Claus view of God. The evil one has taken control over their minds and hearts. After all, the whole world lies under the power of Satan (1Jn 5:19).
Agreed. And how is that so?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,390
1,006
113
No, I'm here to give everyone the GREAT news -- that while we were still hopeless and hapless enemies of God, and while we were helplessly dead in our sins, God reconciled us to himself by raising us from the dead.

You already admitted that Christ in Mat 7;23 had never set his personal, intimate affections upon the non-elect, which means he never bestowed saving grace upon them. No love, no grace! There can be no saving grace unless love moves God to bestow it.
God is love and that was an extraordinary revelation.

Until that revelation we all thought God was a cranky God.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,660
5,908
113
God does not have favorites, Cameron.
Not anymore since israel broke his covenant , and he sent the gospel to all people no favorites or favoritism

“Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭NIV‬‬

God will repay each person according to what they have done.

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;

but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,390
1,006
113
Not anymore since israel broke his covenant , and he sent the gospel to all people no favorites or favoritism

“Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭NIV‬‬

God will repay each person according to what they have done.

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;

but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬
That is a much more wholesome understanding of the scripture.

The way you behave is a direct reflection of what you believe.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,435
535
113
Wrong. It made them into spiritual Jews - the only true Jews - which all of the true believers have become.
It says that they were "granted repentance", not that they were provided an opportunity for them to acquire repentance: it was GIVEN them. And as Peter said, "what was I that I could withstand God?" - thus telling us that no one is able to withstand God, not the least of which are those predestinated by God to receive His gift(s).
By repentance being given the Gentiles, for those who are to receive it, they have/will be made spiritual Jews by God, within the Israel of God.

[Act 11:16,17 KJV]
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

What does this say?

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free,
there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.
The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.



Gentiles do not become Jews.
In Christ? Both Jew and gentiles now become the one new creation!

What we have been predestined for? In Him we were chosen to be his Bride!

Other saved people from other dispensations? They were not chosen to be the Bride of Christ.

It's Finished!
 
Oct 19, 2024
1,861
451
83
The atonement correctly understood is that Jesus was sent only to the Jews.

The atonement was for the nation of Israel and that was the fulfillment of their law.

The law belonged to Israel and was never given to the Gentiles.

The Gentiles were grafted at a later time into Jesus Christ.

Israel was the cultivated olive tree.

Paul explained that reconciliation of Israel, in depth, in Romans.
Jesus was sent both primarily to the Jews in fulfillment of the OT and also to the Gentiles as He instituted the NT as signified by the Great Commission.

The grafting in of the Gentiles should be understood as being retroactive per the provisional gospel and thus eternal spiritually. If God loves the world (JN 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (2TM 2:4), then He must provide an opportunity. God’s just judgment is illustrated by Jesus in the Parable of the Talents (MT 25:14-29), which indicates that God will judge souls on the basis of the truth (Word = Christ per JN 1:1f.) they have received.

Three ways God/Christ is encountered or received include: 1. general revelation, which includes meditating on the natural world or God’s supernatural work. Paul says men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and divine nature (love) are manifested by creation (RM 1:20), and because a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (CL 1:23, RM 10:13-18, GL 3:8). 2. the inner conscience, a natural or “common” sense (RM 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture; and 3. special revelation (1PT 1:8-12), which refers to the biblical and especially NT teaching regarding God’s history of salvation.

Again, the Parable of the Talents indicates that souls are saved via faith in God/ Christ as revealed (cf. 1CR 10:1-5). Truthseekers around the world in all times are pilgrims at various places along the road of life, and all true roads eventually lead to the Way to eternal life in heaven (JN 14:6, ACTS 24:14, PHP 2:10-11). All truth leads to One Way.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,052
411
83
I just think elect should be emphasized due to the opposition to it being part of the Gospel message, as to who Christ specifically died for and what it accomplished.
When I present the Gospel, I tell people that Christ died for all those who come to believe on Him. And that is a thoroughly biblical statement.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,435
535
113
Huh ? What you reading ? You confused
Well, then. Be that as it may. Please answer the question anyway.

Since you believe that Jesus died for only the elect? (the Calvinistic view)

Do you believe that all unbelievers will be condemned to Hell based upon there being no forgiveness for their sins?
 
Oct 19, 2024
1,861
451
83
When I present the Gospel, I tell people that Christ died for all those who come to believe on Him. And that is a thoroughly biblical statement.
Partially biblical rather than thoroughly, because Christ died to pay the penalty for sin of all humanity.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,052
411
83
Jesus was sent both primarily to the Jews in fulfillment of the OT and also to the Gentiles as He instituted the NT as signified by the Great Commission.

The grafting in of the Gentiles should be understood as being retroactive per the provisional gospel and thus eternal spiritually. If God loves the world (JN 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (2TM 2:4), then He must provide an opportunity. God’s just judgment is illustrated by Jesus in the Parable of the Talents (MT 25:14-29), which indicates that God will judge souls on the basis of the truth (Word = Christ per JN 1:1f.) they have received.

Three ways God/Christ is encountered or received include: 1. general revelation, which includes meditating on the natural world or God’s supernatural work. Paul says men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and divine nature (love) are manifested by creation (RM 1:20), and because a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (CL 1:23, RM 10:13-18, GL 3:8). 2. the inner conscience, a natural or “common” sense (RM 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture; and 3. special revelation (1PT 1:8-12), which refers to the biblical and especially NT teaching regarding God’s history of salvation.

Again, the Parable of the Talents indicates that souls are saved via faith in God/ Christ as revealed (cf. 1CR 10:1-5). Truthseekers around the world in all times are pilgrims at various places along the road of life, and all true roads eventually lead to the Way to eternal life in heaven (JN 14:6, ACTS 24:14, PHP 2:10-11). All truth leads to One Way.
Nonsense! God does the "love the world" -- just not in the distributive sense as you think -- but in the limited, biblical sense to wit:

Rev 5:9
9 And they sang a new song:

"You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,

and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.

NIV

Rev 7:9
9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

NIV

Notice what Rev 5:9 DOESN'T say: It doesn't say that "with your blood you purchased each and every man" from..."

And many people over the ages have never had the "opportunity" to hear the gospel, let alone believe it! For starters, what about all the infants, babies and small kids die without having a true knowledge of good and evil? When you use the word "must", you clearly imply that God is morally obligated to save mankind. But if he's morally obligated, this further implies that mankind is entitled to his salvation. But if mankind is entitled to salvation, then salvation cannot possibly be by grace since Grace is God's unmerited favor that he gives to undeserving sinners.

Or what about Ishmael and Esau: What opportunity did they have to enter into a saving covenant relationship with God? Their eternal, spiritual destiny was determined in eternity before any of them did anything good or bad.

You really should strive to get on the same page as the bible.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
When I present the Gospel, I tell people that Christ died for all those who come to believe on Him. And that is a thoroughly biblical statement.
Biblical yes, transparent in terms of your theology (God must enable a person to be able to believe first ) not really.