Understanding God’s election

[Rufus]

cv5 said:


Adam and Eve repented of their own free will, trusted God of their own free will, and asked for mercy of their own free will.
And they got it. In fact they also were gifted with a Kinsman Redeemer Who was to come.

And so it goes from there.

The trial of Genesis 3 debunks the entire Reformed/Calvinite position BTW.
But since the Calvinites are utterly clueless about the truth of that scenario, they persist in their hoaxing.

And of course, you have chapter and verse to back up your fairy tale, right?

You guys who love to superimpose your pet lies upon scripture are going to be in for a very rude awakening on judgment day.

 

[Rufus]

Very good Rufus.

"the former passage is limited in the context to Gentiles"

That's the way to read the scripture always in the context!

Absolutely. You should try it sometime! Paul himself in 1Tim 2 defines what he meant by "all men".

Context really does matter...

 

[Genez]

@cv5



Thats incorrect, forgiveness is freely given not offered or made available but given to all Gods elect based upon the Death of Christ for their sins Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel[elect], and forgiveness of sins.

Thats part of what constitutes Jesus a Saviour !

That meant to the Jews that they no longer had to offer animal sacrifices for their sins!
Forgiveness of sins now is to be based upon the work of Christ on the Cross!

No more need for the Temple sacrifices!
No more the Levitical priesthood to perform the sacrifices on their behalf!

Just Confess! Name your sins! Anywhere! Any place!
The blood of Christ is always before us!

We are now our own believer priest!
We can now instantly receive forgiveness of sins
by simply citing our sins directly to God!!!!!

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins ​

and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9​

That was never possible for the Jews before the atonement of the Cross!

What Peter was telling them in Acts 5:31 was unheard of to the Jews!

It was revolutionary! It changed the world!

In Christ...

 

[brightfame52]

@Genez

That meant to the Jews

No its Spiritual Israel, which includes Gentiles Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life

Christ didnt just shed His Blood for ethnic jews

 

[Genez]

Whatever that means that I bolded above. You waxed incoherent again. "Make them to be ignoble purposes"? Human beings are now purposes?

God did not make them to be ignoble purposes.

They chose their outcomes as they arrogantly resisted the Potters hands molding them.
He did not want them to be that way.
What they chose for, He produced the vessel for!

We are all vessels before God.
To be filled with righteousness,
or self-righteousness!

We are either humble on the Potters wheel.
Or, proud.

The proud are denied grace from God.
They receive only discipline.
They do not receive understanding.

But He gives greater grace.
Therefore, He says:

“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

James 4:6
​

.

 

[cv5]

Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel[elect], and forgiveness of sins.

Thats part of what constitutes Jesus a Saviour !

Forgiveness was made for the many by Christ shed blood Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many[The elect] for the remission of sins.

Its not offered to them, its an accomplished fact

The Calvinites think that their "preaching" (if indeed that's what it is and if indeed they every actually do it) is meant to "boot up" the programming that God "pre-installed" at their creation.

Which leads one to the inevitable conclusion that so-called "double predestination" (predestination being used incorrectly as they always do) to damnation is a fact.

Yes, the Calvinites do their best at artfully dodging this horrible outcome, but it is quite inescapable.

 

[Genez]

@Genez



No its Spiritual Israel, which includes Gentiles Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life

Christ didnt just shed His Blood for ethnic jews

​

Acts 11:18​

​

When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, ​

“So then, even to Gentiles, God has granted repentance that leads to life.”​

That means they (Gentiles) now had direct access to the blood for forgiveness of sins.
Before, that, it was only made available in the Temple.
The Gentiles needed to remain in the outer court only!
Now, they are inside like, the Jews were allowed.

But, that does not make them Jews.
Just the same benefits as Jews, but it did not make them Jews.
They had been grafted into the same olive tree that Jews were previously the sole beneficiaries!

grace and peace ..........

 

[Genez]

@Genez



No its Spiritual Israel, which includes Gentiles Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life

Christ didnt just shed His Blood for ethnic jews

So? You think that all unbelievers will be condemned to Hell based upon there being no forgiveness for their sins?
Is that what you believe?


......

 

[Rufus]

We do read the scripture differently Rufus.

"Many were called (invited) to the feast but few were chosen -- and the "few" who were chosen were compelled
to come into the feast (v. 23)! The rest who refused the invitation did not taste the banquet (v. 24)!"

I read that as a saying the Jews refused the invitation and the Gentiles accepted the invitation.

Here is me thinking that the Jews were invited because they were chosen, silly me.

I made no commentary about the people who were invited. My post to which you responded dealt with an entirely different subject.

 

[Rufus]

Yet... their personalized dogma will be pursued in the name of Scripture!

Paul warned Timothy that there will be many alleged teachers who will be using Scripture in a way that will be designed to lock onto
human desire of religious folks, who had in fact believed in Jesus and are saved because they believed!

​

For the time will come when they will not put up with sound doctrine. ​

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great ​

number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3​

A great number of teachers = a great number of divisive denominational conclusions!
Not sound doctrine. They will reject sound teaching.

For the time will come when they will not put up with sound doctrine. ​

But, will have an affinity for Bible teachings that appeals to them in a natural way...

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great ​

number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.​

grace and peace ..........

Describes you to a tee! Good job!

 

[Rufus]

So? You think that all unbelievers will be condemned to Hell based upon there being no forgiveness for their sins, which they never desired in the first place?
Is that what you believe?
......

FTFY!

 

[Rufus]

Of course its nonsense.....
Its not what you chose to believe.

Imagine that!

You are correct. I, by the grace of God, choose to not believe lies!

 

[Genez]

Describes you to a tee! Good job!

Of Course!
And... The Pharisees thought Jesus performed his miracles by Beezelebub.

See how easy it is to do?

 

[Rufus]

God did not make them to be ignoble purposes.

They chose their outcomes as they arrogantly resisted the Potters hands molding them.
He did not want them to be that way.
What they chose for, He produced the vessel for!

We are all vessels before God.
To be filled with righteousness,
or self-righteousness!

We are either humble on the Potters wheel.
Or, proud.

The proud are denied grace from God.
They receive only discipline.
They do not receive understanding.

But He gives greater grace.
Therefore, He says:

“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

James 4:6
​

.

Too bad Rom 9 doesn't teach what you say. The clay pots, who didn't even exist in eternity, had no say in their eternal destiny which God determined before any of us did anything good or bad.

 

[Rufus]

Of Course!
And... The Pharisees thought Jesus performed his miracles by Beezelebub.

See how easy it is to do?

Yes, it is easy for you to do. You identify so well with those Pharisees.

 

[Genez]

Too bad Rom 9 doesn't teach what you say. The clay pots, who didn't even exist in eternity, had no say in their eternal destiny which God determined before any of us did anything good or bad.

Why do you continue?

Rufus is here to give us the Bad News.

Enjoy your show...

 

[rogerg]

​

Acts 11:18​

​

When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, ​

“So then, even to Gentiles, God has granted repentance that leads to life.”​

That means they (Gentiles) now had direct access to the blood for forgiveness of sins.
Before, that, it was only made available in the Temple.
The Gentiles needed to remain in the outer court only!
Now, they are inside like, the Jews were allowed.

But, that does not make them Jews.
Just the same benefits as Jews, but it did not make them Jews.
They had been grafted into the same olive tree that Jews were previously the sole beneficiaries!

grace and peace ..........

Wrong. It made them into spiritual Jews - the only true Jews - which all of the true believers have become.
It says that they were "granted repentance", not that they were provided an opportunity for them to acquire repentance: it was GIVEN them. And as Peter said, "what was I that I could withstand God?" - thus telling us that no one is able to withstand God, not the least of which are those predestinated by God to receive His gift(s).
By repentance being given the Gentiles, for those who are to receive it, they have/will be made spiritual Jews by God, within the Israel of God.

[Act 11:16,17 KJV]
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

 

[Cranberry]

1) No. Forgiveness is freely available to all who ask. Someone who does not ask has CHOSEN to pay for their own sins.

2) So that God is justified and glorified when someone makes the CHOICE to hold fast to the promised One. Like Job and Rahab and every other saint.

The false god you preach is NEVER glorified. Because he creates souls evil that CANNOT choose to worship him. Which is Satan's accusation BTW.

I think your fixation against Calvinism and Calvinists whom you clearly intend to disrespect should they patronize this community leads to your incapacity to realize none of what you posted there is actually able to be defended with scripture.

The god ideology you poosit does not exist in the Bible.

Pharaoh's heart was hardened already prior to the arrival of Moses .
God none the less hardened Pharaoh's heart beyond that.
No matter the depth of suffering wrought by the plagues God brought upon the Egyptian people Pharaoh was made incapable to concede and let God's people go.
And he did not. Until God let him do so.
This, after God not Pharaoh slaughtered every first born Egyptian child.

So many Christians envision God as a hippie. Non-violent. All love all the time. When God is a war God not a passifist god.

Thinking anyone can change their mind and recognize they need Jesus is not what God tells us in his own words.

Insisting upon a scenario of ones own invention is defending ones own fictional narrative. That isn't Biblical. It is a demonstration of someone unable to accept what God says of himself.

Revelation is clear. The Lamb's Book of Life preexists the world that would later need saving.

Which tells us,God planned the fall.

The Bible filled with prophecies from God tells readers God plans all things.

 

[cv5]

Why do you continue?

Rufus is here to give us the Bad News.

Enjoy your show...

Yup.

The bad news message of:
"rots of ruck and happy landings, eternal damnation awaits, all without your input, actions, consequences, or choice".

 

[cv5]

I think your fixation against Calvinism and Calvinists whom you clearly intend to disrespect should they patronize this community leads to your incapacity to realize none of what you posted there is actually able to be defended with scripture.

The god ideology you poosit does not exist in the Bible.

Pharaoh's heart was hardened already prior to the arrival of Moses .
God none the less hardened Pharaoh's heart beyond that. No matter the depth of suffering wrought by the plagues God brought upon the Egyptian people Pharaoh was made incapable to concede and let God's people go.
And he did not. Until God let him do so.
This, after Godnot Pharaoh slaughtered every first born Egyptian child.

So many Christians envision God as a hippie. Non-violent. All love all the time. When God is a war God not a passifist god.

Thinking anyone can change their mind and recognize they need Jesus is not what God tells us in his own words.

Insisting upon a scenario of ones own invention is defending ones own fictional narrative. That isn't Biblical. It is a demonstration of someone unable to accept what God says of himself.

You incongruous word salad is less than convincing. Much less.