Understanding God’s election

[Genez]

It has become apparent.
That...
There are two groups formed, here in this thread.

One of them is a gang.

​

For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions ​

among you, and in part I believe it. No doubt there have to be factions among you ​

to show which of you have God’s approval." 1 Corinthians 11:18-19​

God is just doing His work...

 

[Kroogz]

It has become apparent.
That...
There are two groups formed, here in this thread.

One of them is a gang.

​

For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions ​

among you, and in part I believe it. No doubt there have to be factions among you ​

to show which of you have God’s approval." 1 Corinthians 11:18-19​

God is just doing His work...

To me it's pretty simple.
The Lord Jesus Christ died and rose again for ALL of mankind. And His Good news to ALL/the Whole world is..........ALL can have salvation in And through Him. John 3:16>>>>Acts 16:31. Equal opportunity for ALL.

Who would want that message stopped? The Lord Jesus Christ or Satan?

 

[Rufus]

It has become apparent.
That...
There are two groups formed, here in this thread.

One of them is a gang.

​

For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions ​

among you, and in part I believe it. No doubt there have to be factions among you ​

to show which of you have God’s approval." 1 Corinthians 11:18-19​

God is just doing His work...

Indeed He is...just not through you and your gang of social and spiritual misfits.

 

[HeIsHere]

To me it's pretty simple.
The Lord Jesus Christ died and rose again for ALL of mankind. And His Good news to ALL/the Whole world is..........ALL can have salvation in And through Him. John 3:16>>>>Acts 16:31. Equal opportunity for ALL.

Who would want that message stopped? The Lord Jesus Christ or Satan?

Yes and sometimes where possible show the error for those reading along as guests or members.
I am convinced the ongoing effort to spread this "doctrine" is very telling.

 

[Inquisitor]

Another pointless post. But at least you seem to agree (for now) that Jesus never "knew" the non-elect. Thanks for that "remarkable insight" that those Christ never knew "were never saved". I do seem to recall saying quite often that those in Mat 7:23 were false believers, which makes this passage one of the most sobering in all scripture since these people were obviously very self-deceived. They had conned themselves into believing that they were the real deal. This demonstrates the pernicious nature of self-deception because such people are unaware of their true condition, standing or status.

Same goes for those people that believe they were saved, before Jesus even died for them.

Thinking your one of the elect when you never were.

That's self deception in the extreme.

 

[Inquisitor]

Rom 9:22
What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction?

Did God create a world where the majority have been created for eternal suffering?

Why would God do that?

Many of them especially in poor countries suffer greatly, then they are judged and
get to suffer for eternity.

Why would God predestine them to an eternity of agony?

It really drives me to worship Jesus?

 

[Genez]

To me it's pretty simple.
The Lord Jesus Christ died and rose again for ALL of mankind. And His Good news to ALL/the Whole world is..........ALL can have salvation in And through Him. John 3:16>>>>Acts 16:31. Equal opportunity for ALL.

Who would want that message stopped? The Lord Jesus Christ or Satan?

Salvation is only the starting line... Too many think its the finish line.

2 Peter 3:18​

​

But continuously be growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. ​

To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.​

We are commanded to mature in Christ as to glorify Christ.

Not all Christians who will be in heaven will be shown by the Lord to have reached maturity.

Instead, they will seek for doctrines that suites their natural inclination. And, once found, will zealously defend them as to create an alter universe to genuine spiritual Christianity...

And, when in the name of what they profess what they prefer to believe? Form a religion that uses the name of Jesus Christ, but falls short. Unable to find within themselves the genuine life of Christ. But, a religion that their flesh, can identify with in how they naturally express themselves emotionally.

For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies ​

of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their belly/EMOTIONS, and their glory ​

is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things. Philippians 3:18-19​

The ancients had not yet invented the word 'emotions.' Instead they referred to body parts to reveal what various emotions are.
So, when it says in that passage that their god is their belly? It means, their god is their emotions! Just like we see with legalistic
believers today.

.....

 

[Inquisitor]

You have taken the 1Tim and 2Pet passages totally out of context! Therefore, they do not prove what you are so desperately trying to prove. The "all men" in the former passage is limited in the context to Gentiles. And in the latter passage, God does not wish for any of his elect to perish, since God's patience is directed toward the elect, and not toward the world at large.

Very good Rufus.

"the former passage is limited in the context to Gentiles"

That's the way to read the scripture always in the context!

 

[Inquisitor]

Salvation is only the starting line... Too many think its the finish line.

2 Peter 3:18​

​

But continuously be growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. ​

To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.​

We are commanded to mature in Christ as to glorify Christ.

Not all Christians who will be in heaven will be shown by the Lord to have reached maturity.

Instead, they will seek for doctrines that suites their natural inclination. And, once found, will zealously defend them as to create an alter universe to genuine spiritual Christianity...

And, when in the name of what they profess what they prefer to believe? Form a religion that uses the name of Jesus Christ, but falls short. Unable to find within themselves the genuine life of Christ. But, a religion that their flesh, can identify with in how they naturally express themselves emotionally.

For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies ​

of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their belly/EMOTIONS, and their glory ​

is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things. Philippians 3:18-19​

The ancients had not yet invented the word 'emotions.' Instead they referred to body parts to reveal what various emotions are.
So, when it says in that passage that their god is their belly? It means, their god is their emotions! Just like we see with legalistic
believers today.

.....

A very strong post Genez.

 

[Kroogz]

Did God create a world where the majority have been created for eternal suffering?

Absolutely He did not.
Rom 9:22
What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction?

2 Tim 2:21
Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

2 Pet 3:15
and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,

God prepares vessels for Glory.
Rom 9:23
And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon objects of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

Vessels prepare for destruction.
Jer 18:4
But the vessel that he was making of clay was spoiled in the hand of the potter; so he remade it into another vessel, as it pleased the potter to make.

 

[Inquisitor]

Salvation is only the starting line... Too many think its the finish line.

2 Peter 3:18​

​

But continuously be growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. ​

To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.​

We are commanded to mature in Christ as to glorify Christ.

Not all Christians who will be in heaven will be shown by the Lord to have reached maturity.

Instead, they will seek for doctrines that suites their natural inclination. And, once found, will zealously defend them as to create an alter universe to genuine spiritual Christianity...

And, when in the name of what they profess what they prefer to believe? Form a religion that uses the name of Jesus Christ, but falls short. Unable to find within themselves the genuine life of Christ. But, a religion that their flesh, can identify with in how they naturally express themselves emotionally.

For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies ​

of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their belly/EMOTIONS, and their glory ​

is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things. Philippians 3:18-19​

The ancients had not yet invented the word 'emotions.' Instead they referred to body parts to reveal what various emotions are.
So, when it says in that passage that their god is their belly? It means, their god is their emotions! Just like we see with legalistic
believers today.

.....

I would say that the desires and passions of the flesh are the cause.

Their minds pursue worldly ideas, worldly goods, wealth, power, etc.

That's the inner conflict we all experience and it never goes away.

 

[Inquisitor]

Absolutely He did not.
Rom 9:22
What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction?

2 Tim 2:21
Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

2 Pet 3:15
and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,

God prepares vessels for Glory.
Rom 9:23
And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon objects of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

Vessels prepare for destruction.
Jer 18:4
But the vessel that he was making of clay was spoiled in the hand of the potter; so he remade it into another vessel, as it pleased the potter to make.

Sorry, God has predestined the majority to suffer.

A small minority believe in Jesus and an even smaller group, will bear the fruit of that belief.

Why did God not create heaven with us all in heaven?

 

[Kroogz]

Salvation is only the starting line... Too many think its the finish line.

2 Peter 3:18​

​

But continuously be growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. ​

To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.​

We are commanded to mature in Christ as to glorify Christ.

Not all Christians who will be in heaven will be shown by the Lord to have reached maturity.

Instead, they will seek for doctrines that suites their natural inclination. And, once found, will zealously defend them as to create an alter universe to genuine spiritual Christianity...

And, when in the name of what they profess what they prefer to believe? Form a religion that uses the name of Jesus Christ, but falls short. Unable to find within themselves the genuine life of Christ. But, a religion that their flesh, can identify with in how they naturally express themselves emotionally.

For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies ​

of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their belly/EMOTIONS, and their glory ​

is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things. Philippians 3:18-19​

The ancients had not yet invented the word 'emotions.' Instead they referred to body parts to reveal what various emotions are.
So, when it says in that passage that their god is their belly? It means, their god is their emotions! Just like we see with legalistic
believers today.

.....

And if we, as believers, cannot even get off of the starting line(the Doctrine of salvation) We have no chance of advancing in His plan for us.
HEB 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

 

[Kroogz]

Sorry, God has predestined the majority to suffer.

He has not. When the clay was spoiled in His hand, did God "slip" up and make a mistake? Or did the clay resist His hands?

 

[Genez]

I would say that the desires and passions of the flesh are the cause.

Their minds pursue worldly ideas, worldly goods, wealth, power, etc.

That's the inner conflict we all experience and it never goes away.

Yet... their personalized dogma will be pursued in the name of Scripture!

Paul warned Timothy that there will be many alleged teachers who will be using Scripture in a way that will be designed to lock onto
human desire of religious folks, who had in fact believed in Jesus and are saved because they believed!

​

For the time will come when they will not put up with sound doctrine. ​

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great ​

number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3​

A great number of teachers = a great number of divisive denominational conclusions!
Not sound doctrine. They will reject sound teaching.

For the time will come when they will not put up with sound doctrine. ​

But, will have an affinity for Bible teachings that appeals to them in a natural way...

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great ​

number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.​

grace and peace ..........

 

[Genez]

And if we, as believers, cannot even get off of the starting line(the Doctrine of salvation) We have no chance of advancing in His plan for us.
HEB 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

The key is found only in God's leading grace...

One must be led by the Spirit into finding hidden treasure - finding a competent, anointed pastor teacher.
One who is able to dig out from God's Word, gold, silver, and precious stones for us to live by.

And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, ​

and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:30​

So when it says?
Many are called, but few are chosen?

Many are called (saved), but few out of the many will be chosen to serve with Him.
For it takes spiritually maturity in Christ for Him to chose those who will reign with Him.

Yet? Even if not chosen to serve with Him? All will be glorified!

Glorified with glorious Resurrection bodies for all!


It's too good to fully grasp now.

 

[Inquisitor]

He has not. When the clay was spoiled in His hand, did God "slip" up and make a mistake? Or did the clay resist His hands?

The clay for honorable use was the nation of Israel.

That's the context.

 

[Genez]

The clay for honorable use was the nation of Israel.

That's the context.

God did not make them to be ignoble purposes.
He used them for ignoble purpose.
God allowed them to continue resisting His molding them.
God did not mash them up and make nothing out of them. Instead...
He used them for bed pans.


God, said... "OK!" You want to be that way?
Here is what I will use you for!

 

[Genez]

The clay for honorable use was the nation of Israel.

That's the context.

The potters wheel?

It applies to all believers just the same....

For God designates a time in all our lives for pressures to be found all around us.
Within those pressures, our character is formed! Potter's wheel!

Good character formed? = used for noble purpose.

Lack of character? = Complainers and whiners- losers in life.

 

[Rufus]

Same goes for those people that believe they were saved, before Jesus even died for them.

Thinking your one of the elect when you never were.

That's self deception in the extreme.

You free-willers EXCEL in posting dumb straw men! Who here ever said that? You're a very confused person! You're confusing God's eternal decrees for salvation with actual salvation of individuals. To be sure, what God has decreed in eternity is certain to come to past in temporal reality. But this is far removed from what you just said above. Salvation, although decreed in eternity, must be applied to each and every soul in time and space. No one is actually saved in eternity. God's eternal decree absoltuely and positively gurantees that salvation will become a reality for each and every one of his elect in temporal reality.

Who's next up to bat to take a swing at another straw man?