Understanding God’s election
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You're very defensive. I simply asked a question to make sure I understood you rightly? You have a problem with that?
I don't have a problem with what Jesus said in Mat 7:23, as long as you and other free-willers understand what Jesus did NOT say! He did not say that he will tell the false believers to depart from Him because THEY never knew him! Nor did he say that He'll tell the false believers to depart from Him because they and Jesus never knew one another. While both of these postulates are true, they are NOT the [ultimate] reason Jesus gives. And this is indeed very odd given that free-willers believe that man's choice to believe or not believe the gospel is ultimately what will determine their eternal destiny. Mat 7:23 shoots a huge torpedo through that kind of heretical nonsense! By Jesus telling them what he did, he's really saying that He never set his personal, intimate, covenantal affections upon them which accounts for their dismal spiritual condition. Since what moves God to give saving grace to his elect is his eternal love for them, this passage is devastating to free willers fanciful notion that helpless, powerless mankind is in complete control of its eternal destiny. But...these four words "I NEVER KNEW YOU" blows that rubbish out of the water! Moreover, since God sovereignly determines who he is going to save and who he isn't, then this also blows out of the water the notion of "unconditional" love and that God wants each and every person in the world to be saved.
Conversely, the elect in Rom 8:29 were lavished upon with God's love which is the ultimate reason for them being saved; for God KNEW them in eternity. His eternal love for them is precisely what motivated him to save them by his undeserved, unmerited grace.
I don't have a problem with what Jesus said in Mat 7:23, as long as you and other free-willers understand what Jesus did NOT say! He did not say that he will tell the false believers to depart from Him because THEY never knew him! Nor did he say that He'll tell the false believers to depart from Him because they and Jesus never knew one another. While both of these postulates are true, they are NOT the [ultimate] reason Jesus gives. And this is indeed very odd given that free-willers believe that man's choice to believe or not believe the gospel is ultimately what will determine their eternal destiny. Mat 7:23 shoots a huge torpedo through that kind of heretical nonsense! By Jesus telling them what he did, he's really saying that He never set his personal, intimate, covenantal affections upon them which accounts for their dismal spiritual condition. Since what moves God to give saving grace to his elect is his eternal love for them, this passage is devastating to free willers fanciful notion that helpless, powerless mankind is in complete control of its eternal destiny. But...these four words "I NEVER KNEW YOU" blows that rubbish out of the water! Moreover, since God sovereignly determines who he is going to save and who he isn't, then this also blows out of the water the notion of "unconditional" love and that God wants each and every person in the world to be saved.
Conversely, the elect in Rom 8:29 were lavished upon with God's love which is the ultimate reason for them being saved; for God KNEW them in eternity. His eternal love for them is precisely what motivated him to save them by his undeserved, unmerited grace.
Rufus... I can play your game as long as you wish....
Just using you for a sounding board to help those whom you might be confusing.
Just using you for a sounding board to help those whom you might be confusing.
But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it
that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces?
Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? Galatians 4:9
Wake up!
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To be holy and blameless is to have one's sins forgiven and thus be saved.
The elect - those chosen by God to salvation - were chosen from before the foundation of the world.
Just read the verses closely without twisting and distorting them
[Eph 1:4,7 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
The question is: do you see it? You left off the end of the verse. It says, "but for the ELECT'S SAKE, WHOM HE HAS CHOSEN"; that is, for the sake of His chosen - the elect's sake - He has shortened the days; He did not do so for the non-elect that they might be saved, but only for His elect so that all of them would be saved, He, not willing that any of them perish.
[Mar 13:20 KJV] 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
And the way you don't read scripture baffles me!
No. All who are taken out from the requirements of spiritual law by Christ, have been/are spiritually adopted by God - whether they be Jew or Gentile. Spiritual adoption is an adoption unto salvation, and it is salvation that we are discussing.
[Col 3:10-12 KJV]
10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
The kingdom was prepared for those on His right hand. The verse does not say "it was prepared for you because of your choices" - instead, it was prepared for the "YOU" - unto specific people, not choices from the foundation of the world. It was prepared for them because they were of the " ye blessed of my Father"; that is they were of the blessed of the Father because they were chosen by the Father.
It actually screams the reverse of what you said - that they who were originally invited (a depiction of earthly Israel and of the earthly Jews that rejected Christ, and still reject Him), were not elected because to be elected means to be elected to salvation. You make an invalid assumption that those invited in the parable, and those elected to salvation, are synonymous, when they are not. Everyone elected MUST become saved simply because they were elected, but those who were not invited - those not on the highways - would/could never become saved.
The elect - those chosen by God to salvation - were chosen from before the foundation of the world.
Just read the verses closely without twisting and distorting them
[Eph 1:4,7 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
The question is: do you see it? You left off the end of the verse. It says, "but for the ELECT'S SAKE, WHOM HE HAS CHOSEN"; that is, for the sake of His chosen - the elect's sake - He has shortened the days; He did not do so for the non-elect that they might be saved, but only for His elect so that all of them would be saved, He, not willing that any of them perish.
[Mar 13:20 KJV] 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
And the way you don't read scripture baffles me!
No. All who are taken out from the requirements of spiritual law by Christ, have been/are spiritually adopted by God - whether they be Jew or Gentile. Spiritual adoption is an adoption unto salvation, and it is salvation that we are discussing.
[Col 3:10-12 KJV]
10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
The kingdom was prepared for those on His right hand. The verse does not say "it was prepared for you because of your choices" - instead, it was prepared for the "YOU" - unto specific people, not choices from the foundation of the world. It was prepared for them because they were of the " ye blessed of my Father"; that is they were of the blessed of the Father because they were chosen by the Father.
It actually screams the reverse of what you said - that they who were originally invited (a depiction of earthly Israel and of the earthly Jews that rejected Christ, and still reject Him), were not elected because to be elected means to be elected to salvation. You make an invalid assumption that those invited in the parable, and those elected to salvation, are synonymous, when they are not. Everyone elected MUST become saved simply because they were elected, but those who were not invited - those not on the highways - would/could never become saved.
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Did you even bother to look at the context?
See how simple it was to see if you just looked for it...
Can not figure that out for yourself?
As Galatians 4:6-9, plainly states?
That believers are known by God?
Those he never knew?
Were never saved!
How can you play stupid with that?
Yet... Proverbs 12:1, says? ... you might try.
...........
See how simple it was to see if you just looked for it...
Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts,
the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” So you are no longer a slave, but
God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.
Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by
nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known
by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable
forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? Galatians 4:6-9
Can not figure that out for yourself?
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you.
Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:23
As Galatians 4:6-9, plainly states?
That believers are known by God?
Those he never knew?
Were never saved!
How can you play stupid with that?
Yet... Proverbs 12:1, says? ... you might try.
...........
In part?
Isaac's birth was meant to send a message to God's over-confident enemies.
Showing them that even though what God says will be... looks impossible?
When God says something shall be?
It will be!
Abraham did not waiver in his faith.... But, behind the scenes, the fallen angels were battling things out.
Isaac was living proof of that what God says, that appears impossible to be, will be!
Isaac's birth shut the mouths of fallen angels who wanted to mock God's integrity to the elect angels!
Now???
I realize, this being Cameron.
That what I said might not answer your question as you thought your question was to be answered.
But, it sure answers questions that are not often times thought of to even be asked!
Enjoy your days...
Isaac's birth was meant to send a message to God's over-confident enemies.
Showing them that even though what God says will be... looks impossible?
When God says something shall be?
It will be!
Abraham did not waiver in his faith.... But, behind the scenes, the fallen angels were battling things out.
Isaac was living proof of that what God says, that appears impossible to be, will be!
Isaac's birth shut the mouths of fallen angels who wanted to mock God's integrity to the elect angels!
Now???
I realize, this being Cameron.
That what I said might not answer your question as you thought your question was to be answered.
But, it sure answers questions that are not often times thought of to even be asked!
Enjoy your days...
Where does it say that God did so to silence His enemies? God writes things for the edification of His people.
If God had chosen a different way for Isaac to be born, would He have done so supernaturally? Yes, because that was the point in the first place. Isaac was a child of promise. It is a foreshadowing of the supernatural birth Jesus tells about in John 3...being born from above.
If God had chosen a different way for Isaac to be born, would He have done so supernaturally? Yes, because that was the point in the first place. Isaac was a child of promise. It is a foreshadowing of the supernatural birth Jesus tells about in John 3...being born from above.
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Why so limiting?
Written only for His people?
That's all it's for?
That's not what Scripture says....
Angels are very much involved in learning truth from those who know how to teach.
Fallen angels are very interested too.
.......
Written only for His people?
That's all it's for?
That's not what Scripture says....
It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke
of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you
by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.
1 Peter 1:12
of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you
by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.
1 Peter 1:12
Angels are very much involved in learning truth from those who know how to teach.
Fallen angels are very interested too.
.......
You think you are teaching people things by saying random things not supported by the scriptures you share and then disparage people for asking where you find something in scripture.
Hint: you aren't teaching something if you don't have scriptural support. The scriptures you do share should also mean what you say they do.
Hint: you aren't teaching something if you don't have scriptural support. The scriptures you do share should also mean what you say they do.
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