Understanding God’s election
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Like several others here, you do not know what you are talking about.
I have addressed verse 5 more than once already, and the only thing that Christians are said to be predestinated to anywhere in scripture is the adoption, and you apparently do not know what that means. The adoption, according to the same Paul who penned this epistle, refers to Christians receiving their glorified bodies at Christ's return.
Rom 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Q.E.D.
I have addressed verse 5 more than once already, and the only thing that Christians are said to be predestinated to anywhere in scripture is the adoption, and you apparently do not know what that means. The adoption, according to the same Paul who penned this epistle, refers to Christians receiving their glorified bodies at Christ's return.
Rom 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Q.E.D.
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Amen and so
“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;
if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:24-26 KJV
Through believing lies men fall and so then through believing the truth we are redeemed .
The part where we’re meant to be peaceful and gentle and not provoke others who oppose and even insult or mock or whatever and still sticking to sharing the truth is important .
I’m not saying this because of anything your saying or doing but it’s something I’m working in my own self at the moment and am realizing in a peaceful environment the lord works well between believers of they are treating one another in the spirit of the gospel but if we’re arguing and contending and insulting and accusing then he doesn’t tend to bless that kind of thing the same way
“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;
if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:24-26 KJV
Through believing lies men fall and so then through believing the truth we are redeemed .
The part where we’re meant to be peaceful and gentle and not provoke others who oppose and even insult or mock or whatever and still sticking to sharing the truth is important .
I’m not saying this because of anything your saying or doing but it’s something I’m working in my own self at the moment and am realizing in a peaceful environment the lord works well between believers of they are treating one another in the spirit of the gospel but if we’re arguing and contending and insulting and accusing then he doesn’t tend to bless that kind of thing the same way
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Did I say it wasn't true? Oh, I may have. I mean, in making the point that man was corrupted right away after sinning (which affected the whole of the universe) and the fact that the second man murdered the third did make me protest you saying it took a long time for man to become corrupt. And I do not know who you are referring to when you say everyone who thinks man didn't choose. I have never said man does not choose and I have told you that before also. Man chooses out of his nature. I have said that all along, it is what I actually believe, and the reason why I postulate the heart must be changed first, for my understanding of the natural man is that he cannot believe with his stony heart and hostile-to-God mind and Scripture attests to this fact. Scripture has God commanding people to circumcise their hearts, and telling us that our hearts are not circumcised by human hands, I take that to mean it is accomplished by the Holy Spirit of God. I am sure there are other verses corroborating that. Anyways. And then along come people who claim to properly represent what I believe and tell me all kinds of lies and vulgarities and try to pass it off as what I believe. It may have been over the weekend just past, some guy who had been haranguing me for a while about Calvin (among other things) as if I should know anything about that dead guy, falsely accused me of ignoring God's love. Maybe it was God's unconditional love. I don't know why he would say that. I pulled up quite a few posts I have made expressing my belief in God's unconditional love for man. Did he admit he was wrong? No, you know what happened? He got worse. And then almost right after that along came another person with a long list of false accusations proclaiming how I blaspheme God and ascribe hatred for humanity to Him. I do no such thing! And then we are supposed to believe people properly represent what we believe? It's such a laughable idea! I have seen next to zero evidence of my beliefs being properly represented by those who disagree with me. If any at all.
It is, because as much as they like to say others lack understanding and eyes to see and ears to hear, they seem to understand very little of the deeper things of God. They say we are not born to sin, even though the Bible says this verbatim, they also say that salvation requires mans decision to work. They teach man plays a part in salvation, God does not do it all according to them, they also did something and deserve the credit and glory for their part. That part God does NOT get the glory for. They seem blind to the things of the spirit if you ask me, and still seem to be pre-milk by the way they act and teach so much error. The Spirit doesn't lead to error, it leads to ALL truth, and when they speak, I do NOT hear the Fathers voice. It's the most sad to me because we are called to be known by our love for EACH OTHER, and that is sorely lacking around any conversation I find them in.
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Not only that! But since the free willers believe that God's salvation is conditioned strictly on man's response to the gospel then this means God's grace is also conditional (based of course on God's prescience), and this in turn means that the love that motivated that grace is equally as conditional, which free willers will still vehemently deny. God would not have been able, according to free willers, to actually express his love in his salvation apart from a positive response to the gospel. So this is, yet, another way their heresy is self-contradictory.
Why is fallen man not free?
What makes him not free?
How well do you understand those questions will determine how well you will know the answer.
Look at the context...
Romans 3:10-12
As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
Who was David looking at?
If man was depraved like you say we are?
It would have to read differently!
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
They become?
Not?
Always were worthless?
It speaks of something that is the result of a process!
What makes him not free?
How well do you understand those questions will determine how well you will know the answer.
Look at the context...
Romans 3:10-12
As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
Who was David looking at?
If man was depraved like you say we are?
It would have to read differently!
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
They become?
Not?
Always were worthless?
It speaks of something that is the result of a process!
He could have been, but, in his case, he wasn't. If this is one of those "personal revelations" that Magenta was talking about, then I have no problem with it whatsoever.
What makes you think that I cannot see that? I already stated that Paul believed in Jesus because of that encounter, but Paul did not get saved until a few days later. Can you see and admit that?
Similarly, it has always been God's desire that none should perish, but many people WILLFULLY CHOOSE to reject God's gracious offer of salvation, and I have already provided scriptural proof of the same.
I never said that it was.
I never said that he did.
And so has every other person born into this world been on God's radar. Jesus was foreordained to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sin OF THE WORLD before the foundation of the world, and he was foreordained as such because God desires for all men to be saved.
1Ti 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Now, if you are not numbered amongst the many BRAINWASHED Calvinists, then you would understand that God's will is that ALL MEN would be saved, and he therefore sent Jesus Christ to give himself A RANSOM FOR ALL. Conversely, if you've had one too many cups of Calvin's homemade Kool-Aid, then you have to not only read things into the text like all THE ELECT to be saved, or a ransom for all THE ELECT, but you also have to first come up with a totally unscriptural definition of the word elect.
Anyhow, your response proved nothing that benefits your current position.
1Ti 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Now, if you are not numbered amongst the many BRAINWASHED Calvinists, then you would understand that God's will is that ALL MEN would be saved, and he therefore sent Jesus Christ to give himself A RANSOM FOR ALL. Conversely, if you've had one too many cups of Calvin's homemade Kool-Aid, then you have to not only read things into the text like all THE ELECT to be saved, or a ransom for all THE ELECT, but you also have to first come up with a totally unscriptural definition of the word elect.
Anyhow, your response proved nothing that benefits your current position.
Honestly I'm not sure of your point. Even general revelation is internal. And the revelation of salvation, the unveiling of Christ by the Father as a means to build the church, is personal and internal. However, this revelation apart from a change in inclination towards God, will not itself result in salvation. If the natural fallen man is predisposed against the things of God, hearing more about God doesn't change his disposition. Only in changing his disposition will you effect a change. That's what occurs in genuine salvation.
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There are moving parts in this process of coming to believe that seem to get confused one for the other or completely overlooked. And all the insistence of what the man of the flesh is capable of when we are expressly told the flesh profits nothing... is somewhat mind boggling. They ascribe to the man of the flesh things only the spiritual man is capable of doing. Its like insisting that a bad tree can bring forth good fruit by denying that the natural man is not good even though Jesus said God alone is good. You would think they'd never read the Bible.
And? What do you think that proves? Again, you obviously do not know what the word adoption meant in Paul's time. It referred to a coming-of-age ceremony, and Paul described it in Galatians 4:1-6. Part of that coming-of-age ceremony was the donning of a new outer garment, and that is precisely what will happen when the Christian's adoption is complete. In other words, their mortal bodies will be replaced with immortal bodies. Thanks for proving my point concerning your own current ignorance in relation to this matter. Will you remain ignorant, or will you adjust your position to reflect biblical truth? That is your own freewill choice to make. Choose wisely.
God's grace IS conditional!
One has to be humble!
Therefore? One has to do something - "be humble."
It is conditional!
That is what God tests for on His potters wheel.
Will it be pride?
Or, humility.
..............
But he gives greater grace. Therefore, he says,
God resists the proud,
but gives grace unto the humble.
James 4:6.
God resists the proud,
but gives grace unto the humble.
James 4:6.
One has to be humble!
Therefore? One has to do something - "be humble."
It is conditional!
That is what God tests for on His potters wheel.
Will it be pride?
Or, humility.
..............
But not all men are on God's radar to be saved. And they never were! And it's not God's will that all men be saved! If it were his will, then each and every person in the world would be saved, since no one is able to thwart God's purposes or plans! I assume you're alluding to 2Pet 3? You free willers manhandle and butcher that passage beyond recognition because you conveniently ignore the context of the passage!