Understanding God’s election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,581
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
113
62
#2,581
rogerg said:
Are you evaluating the gift of God by the standard of gifts given by man? God's gift of salvation doesn't need opening to be received -
that we (must) receive it in its fullness, is also a part of the gift.

And yes, I love ham too.
Click to expand...
Many consider receiving to be an active response to giving. But if I put $100 into your bank account, you have received a gift without any action on your part. Likewise, if God confers something upon an individual or imputes something to them, it is theirs through no effort of their own.

Also, save me some ham.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,582
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
113
62
#2,582
HeIsHere said:
Really, only a "total inability" person could make such a nonsensical statement. Sorry but true.
Impressive how illogical one becomes to defend an erroneous doctrine.

Kinda like NOT knowing about a plane and how to board a plane it is not necessary at all to know if one wants to take a trip by plane.
Click to expand...
So you are saying that knowing the exact outworking of salvation is necessary to salvation?
I can board a plane without knowing all the physics that allow a plane to fly, right?
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

Well-known member
#2,583
Nov 1, 2024
1,195
384
83
#2,583
cv5 said:
[Gen 6:1 KJV]
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

[Gen 6:2 KJV]
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

[Gen 6:3 KJV]
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

[Gen 6:4 KJV]
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.

[Gen 6:5 KJV]
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.

[Gen 6:6 KJV]
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Click to expand...
The sons of God were the godly seed from Adam to Noah listed in Genesis 5. Adam is called the son of God in Luke 4:38.

The word translated 'renown' in verse 4 is hashem, which means 'the name'. The sons of God were men of the name, ie, YHWH.

The verses in masoretic text versions of Job that say sons of God say angels of God in the LXX. Sons of God is Jewish tradition

Angels have never been called the sons of God. That claim is built on vapor. They are spirits, not begotten beings

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Hebrews 1:5​
​
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? Hebrews 1:14​
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#2,584
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#2,584
Cameron143 said:
So you are saying that knowing the exact outworking of salvation is necessary to salvation?
I can board a plane without knowing all the physics that allow a plane to fly, right?
Click to expand...
First one has to know planes exist.
In your soteriology a person can be saved without ever knowing how to be saved >>>> why because you deny the "belief" condition.

Nothing more to be said.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#2,585
Nov 20, 2018
23,789
8,616
113
#2,585
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
The sons of God were the godly seed from Adam to Noah listed in Genesis 5. Adam is called the son of God in Luke 4:38.

The word translated 'renown' in verse 4 is hashem, which means 'the name'. The sons of God were men of the name, ie, YHWH.

The verses in masoretic text versions of Job that say sons of God say angels of God in the LXX. Sons of God is Jewish tradition

Angels have never been called the sons of God. That claim is built on vapor. They are spirits, not begotten beings

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Hebrews 1:5​
​
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? Hebrews 1:14​
Click to expand...
No. I have already posted conclusive proofs.
Are you feeling uncomfortable with this? Good. You should be.

And another thing: In the end-time scenario you have a CHOICE

1) the GOD-MAN Jesus Christ
2) the SATAN-MAN the AC

Which of course validates my view quite conclusively.
There will be a literal supernatural superhuman "Satan-man" at the end times exactly as the Bible clearly declares.

You are attending a post-modern Protestant type Church I presume?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,586
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
113
62
#2,586
HeIsHere said:
It is not really a debate. It is an attempt to extinguish the personal Gospel of Christ Jesus. It is in fact the constant need to fight against this attempt.

Can you imagine if this was the prevailing doctrine.

"Jesus died on the cross for some people now you wait and see if God picks you, it is kinda like the wind it just goes about and it just happens, POOF!!.... keep hoping it might come your way."

How would anyone get saved?
Click to expand...
Salvation is very personal. God went to Noah. That's how he was saved. God went to Abraham. That's how he was saved. God went to Adam and Eve and provided a blood atonement and covered them. That's how they were saved.
Those of the reformed faith are well aware of the very personal coming of God to an individual in salvation. So your argument that those of this persuasion somehow disinfect a personal gospel is unwarranted and simply wrong.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#2,587
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#2,587
Cameron143 said:
Salvation is very personal. God went to Noah. That's how he was saved. God went to Abraham. That's how he was saved. God went to Adam and Eve and provided a blood atonement and covered them. That's how they were saved.
Those of the reformed faith are well aware of the very personal coming of God to an individual in salvation. So your argument that those of this persuasion somehow disinfect a personal gospel is unwarranted and simply wrong.
Click to expand...
Mr. Cameron you are very tenacious. lol

Let me be blunt, the personal coming of Christ in most of the Reformed view that I can see anyway is.... "poof" the wind came your way you are saved.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,588
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
113
62
#2,588
HeIsHere said:
First one has to know planes exist.
In your soteriology a person can be saved without ever knowing how to be saved >>>> why because you deny the "belief" condition.

Nothing more to be said.
Click to expand...
Very few people who are saved understand the outworking of salvation. It isn't included in the gospel. Merely believing in Christ is necessary. And even this isn't fully known to most recipients of grace.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#2,589
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#2,589
Cameron143 said:
Very few people who are saved understand the outworking of salvation. It isn't included in the gospel. Merely believing in Christ is necessary. And even this isn't fully known to most recipients of grace.
Click to expand...
The Gospel is simple. Do you want me to tell you it?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,590
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
113
62
#2,590
HeIsHere said:
Mr. Cameron you are very tenacious. lol

Let me be blunt, the personal coming of Christ in most of the Reformed view that I can see anyway is.... "poof" the wind came your way you are saved.
Click to expand...
You are tenacious as well.

In all the comings I mentioned, who took the initiative? God or man? Salvation was God's idea. Adam's idea was to hide and put on camouflage.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#2,591
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#2,591
Cameron143 said:
You are tenacious as well.

In all the comings I mentioned, who took the initiative? God or man? Salvation was God's idea. Adam's idea was to hide and put on camouflage.
Click to expand...
No I am just being work avoidant, lol.

Adam hid, he had been told the Gospel at the point so that is not really applicable.

Yes it is totally and completely God's plan, no argument there but humans need to believe it if they want to receive the gift of eternal life.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,592
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
113
62
#2,592
HeIsHere said:
The Gospel is simple. Do you want me to tell you it?
Click to expand...
No. I can read 1 Corinthians 15. But that doesn't reveal the outworking of salvation. Nor is it necessary to be saved.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#2,593
Nov 20, 2018
23,789
8,616
113
#2,593
Cameron143 said:
Salvation is very personal. God went to Noah. That's how he was saved. God went to Abraham. That's how he was saved. God went to Adam and Eve and provided a blood atonement and covered them. That's how they were saved.
Those of the reformed faith are well aware of the very personal coming of God to an individual in salvation. So your argument that those of this persuasion somehow disinfect a personal gospel is unwarranted and simply wrong.
Click to expand...
God went to Cain, Korah, Chorazin and Bethsaida too.
What happened?
They wriggled out of God's iron grip?

As for the post-fallen Adam and the Woman, they were literally waiting for God to show up and fix their problem.

Calvinites batting zero on this thread. And worse, the leaven of sheer ignorance and even worse intentional deception runs thick.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#2,594
Nov 20, 2018
23,789
8,616
113
#2,594
Cameron143 said:
Salvation is very personal. God went to Noah. That's how he was saved. God went to Abraham. That's how he was saved.
Click to expand...
That is basically crazy talk right there.
God went somewhere = salvation.
What?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,595
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
113
62
#2,595
HeIsHere said:
No I am just being work avoidant, lol.

Adam hid, he had been told the Gospel at the point so that is not really applicable.

Yes it is totally and completely God's plan, no argument there but humans need to believe it if they want to receive the gift of eternal life.
Click to expand...
Adam didn't here the gospel until after he hid. He was also shown the gospel. Makes one consider communion a little differently.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#2,596
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#2,596
Cameron143 said:
No. I can read 1 Corinthians 15. But that doesn't reveal the outworking of salvation. Nor is it necessary to be saved.
Click to expand...
But... knowing what the "gift" is necessary to know.

So easy, stop making it so complicated, it is really not good to complicate the Gospel so you can find a reason why most people do not believe.
That is really what this is all about, most people do not believe therefore it must be God's doing when people do believe.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,597
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
113
62
#2,597
cv5 said:
God went to Cain, Korah, Chorazin and Bethsaida too.
What happened?
They wriggled out of God's iron grip?

As for the post-fallen Adam and the Woman, they were literally waiting for God to show up and fix their problem.

Calvinites batting zero on this thread. And worse, the leaven of sheer ignorance and even worse intentional deception runs thick.
Click to expand...
I don't have the accounts of God shedding blood for them. Perhaps you can direct me to those verses.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#2,599
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#2,599
Hey @CommodoreTeach you were tagged!! :)

Gonna brag a little to diffuse my headache ... I have a Mac Book Air, was convinced to buy it and I am really liking it.
I really hate Apple products overall but I think this was the better purchase .. still miss those Commodores though.
They were a challenge alright!
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,600
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,883
113
62
#2,600
HeIsHere said:
But... knowing what the "gift" is necessary to know.

So easy, stop making it so complicated, it is really not good to complicate the Gospel so you can find a reason why most people do not believe.
That is really what this is all about, most people do not believe therefore it must be God's doing when people do believe.
Click to expand...
Sure the gospel is simple...Christ and Him crucified. That's what should be preached from every pulpit.
The logic you follow is not the logic the reformed faith. You will never find this conclusion among the reformed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.