Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

There's no verse in scripture that teaches that God's election is contingent upon man's choices...or that his election is contingent on His foreknowledge of man's choices. You had better consult with your "good teacher" before you embarrass yourself further. The bible teaches that God works all things according to the counsel of his own will -- not his moral agents' will (Eph 1:11).

Where is your faith? Why can't you believe Eph 1:11? And what part of "all" don't you get?

1 Corinthians 4:7b; John 3:27; Romans 9:15-16 What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

 

[Kroogz]

Trash Romans nine? Of course not.
I only admonish those who CHOOSE to trash the true intended meaning of it.

And believe me, you have NO IDEA of what is being communicated therein. Like zero.

[Rom 9:3 KJV]
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

[Rom 9:4 KJV]
Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;

[Rom 9:5 KJV]
Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

[Rom 9:6 KJV]
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Should post this truth every 4 or 5 posts. Some need this drilled into their noggins.

 

[Kroogz]

Another thought occurred to me (thanks to the Holy Spirit) re Rom 9:21 which reads:

Rom 9:21
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
NIV

2 Tim 2~~20 Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver implements, but also implements of wood and of earthenware, and some are for honor while others are for dishonor. 21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be an implement for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

 

[Genez]

He won't give you an honest answer. He's as duplicitous as they come. In his heart of hearts, he probably feels that he's entitled to salvation because he lived up to his part of the salvation arrangement. God is now indebted to him.

Do you even know what it is God is saving?

What is God saving?

There is NOTHING to save according to you.

 

[GWH]

May I remind y'all that the doctrine of predestination can be harmonized with the doctrine of volition by understanding election as God electing a POS to elect potentially all humanity, whom He loves and atoned for, if they exercise their God-given grace of volition to accept His offer of grace IN Christ, with IN being pregnant/fraught with that meaning in EPH 1:3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12, 13, 15, 2:6 ("with" in 2:5-6), etc. LIC

 

[Magenta]

with IN being pregnant/fraught with that meaning in EPH 1:3, 4

Which meaning? Some take it one way, and some take it another. It seems some reverse the order.

Ephesians 1:3 + Philippians 2:13

 

[Magenta]

From Ephesians 1:4-6

 

[HeIsHere]

They loved hearing that man is totally depraved. It justified their self hatred.

Yes, I have also thought this for many years now, total inability/depraved is not scriptural it is a psychological eisegesis overlay on the scripture.
This is obvious if one examines the lives of the originators of this doctrine.

 

[Magenta]

John 12:38b-40 “Lord, who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord
been revealed?” For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they cannot see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.”

 

[Magenta]

psychological eisegesis overlay

Romans 11:32 God has consigned everyone to disobedience so that He may have mercy on all.

 

[Cameron143]

Romans 11:32 God has consigned everyone to disobedience so that He may have mercy on all.

I'm sure God asked first.

 

[brightfame52]

May I remind y'all that the doctrine of predestination can be harmonized with the doctrine of volition by understanding election as God electing a POS to elect potentially all humanity, whom He loves and atoned for, if they exercise their God-given grace of volition to accept His offer of grace IN Christ, with IN being pregnant/fraught with that meaning in EPH 1:3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12, 13, 15, 2:6 ("with" in 2:5-6), etc. LIC

Promoting works religion, exalting the will of man

 

[The_Parson]

Well, has anyone brought up the fact that "God is not a respecter of persons"? Just curious...

 

[Magenta]

Isaiah 1:4-5 Alas, O sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a brood of evildoers, children of depravity! They have forsaken the LORD; they have despised the Holy One of Israel and turned their backs on Him. Why do you want more beatings? Why do you keep rebelling? Your head has a massive wound, and your whole heart is afflicted.

 

[Magenta]

I'm sure God asked first.

Yes, according to some, God must get man's permission before He acts to save any.

Otherwise, they have told us that God is an unjust tyrant kidnapping people against their "free" will.
For in their view, for God to act sovereignly, unilaterally, makes a hoax of repentance and salvation.

 

[dougcho]

Yes, I have also thought this for many years now, total inability/depraved is not scriptural
it is a psychological eisegesis overlay on the scripture.
This is obvious if one examines the lives of the originators of this doctrine.

"the originators of this doctrine" are none other than God's people who wrote the NT verses!

 

[HeIsHere]

"the originators of this doctrine" are none other than God's people who wrote the NT verses!

Every single proof text Calvinists use is removed and interpreted outside of its context, so no Paul did not teach Calvinism and neither did Jesus.

 

[The_Parson]

"the originators of this doctrine" are none other than God's people who wrote the NT verses!

So then, you don't think it was formulated by none other than John Calvin?

 

[dougcho]

Every single proof text Calvinists use is removed and interpreted outside of its context,
so no Paul did not teach Calvinism and neither did Jesus.

Would you care to show how election (including Gentiles) in Romans 9
has been taken out of context by me?

 

[Rufus]

Predestined for what?

You presume way too much.

He predestined that you would be born during the Church age.

Why?

Because you were chosen in Him before the foundations of the world.

Why does it say? "Chosen in Him?"

Where was the woman's body while Adam was yet alone?
Her body was "in" Adams body.

When we are resurrected?
He could point to us and proclaim!

Now, this is bone of my everlasting bones, and glorious flesh of my glorious everlasting flesh!

Like Eve was to Adam...
We are the Bride of Christ!
We are hidden in Him and seated with Him right now in heavenly places!

That's what we were chosen for - God having known we would choose to believe.

God sis not predestine Moses to believe in the Church age.
For Moses was not chosen in Him before the foundations of the world!

"For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the
world to be holy and blameless in His presence."
Ephesians 1:4
​

We shall be made holy and blameless in our resurrection bodies, having a body just like his own glorious body!

"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior
from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables
him to bring everything under his control, will transform
our lowly bodies
so that they will be like his
glorious body."

Philippians 3:20-21​

That is what God predestined us for!

Salvation! What else! If he had predestined no one, no one would ever be saved, since the sons of men have no love for God, for His Son or for the Truth.