Understanding God’s election

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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#361
Jul 3, 2015
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Cameron143 said:
I agree. Do you believe Adam and Eve were saved?
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No. They were of the natural world and never ate from the Tree of Life.

I thought that my position on this was obvious to you from what I've said. Now I have to go out...
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#362
Jul 3, 2015
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#362
Also, Adam and Eve are not mentioned along with the faithful of Hebrews 11, of whom it is said:

And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise

Emphasis mine... ( @Cameron143 )

:)
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#363
Dec 18, 2021
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#363
dougcho said:
YES! ... This is the crux of the whole matter:
God chooses to bless (save) some,
while leaving the rest to their own devices
and suffer the justice of God.
As the OP explains ... God has His reasons
for blessing (saving) some of fallen humanity.
#1 it shows His mercy and grace (unmerited favor)
as being a major part of His character.
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Then God is not the loving God he claims to be.

Unless he OFFERS this love to everyone. You can not call him a God of love
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#364
Dec 18, 2021
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#364
Cameron143 said:
Or...because you feel the need to label rather than make the effort to understand.
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Or Maybe everything you say lines up with their thinking?

I do not need to label anything. But if you speak like a Calvinist. walk like a Calvinist. Why would you deny your a Calvinist?

I never could understand how people can do everything a certain group does. then they deny they have any part of that group.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#365
Dec 18, 2021
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#365
Cameron143 said:
Not sure what you are asking.
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You said if God did not act. there would be no need of salvation.

My point is it dopes not matter if God acted or not. we all need salvation.

so what you said is nonsensical.. Can you explain what you mean please
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#366
Dec 18, 2021
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#366
Cameron143 said:
Then I have done a poor job of explaining or you of listening or some of both.

The Bible says that anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. It also says that no one calls Jesus Lord except by the Holy Spirit. How do you reconcile these verses?
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well I have 2 options.

1. the fatalist or calvinist view. which says God makes a person born again, while still in sin. and based on this election. the person will be saved (faith comes after)

2. The other view. that says God offers salvation to everyone, that through his creation, and through the HS and through other means (which may include us) he forces everyone to make a decision.. Those who call on the name of the lord will be saved. Those who reject this call. and deny it, will not be saved.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#368
Oct 19, 2024
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#368
Everlasting-Grace said:
Rev 20: 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

What would you call this? Just asking..
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I would call this wording not keeping in mind that the Judge should not be blamed for the free sinful choice of evildoers that justifies punishment, which means they are casting themselves into hell in accordance with God's permissive will although His desire is that they repent and join the heavenly fellowship. There is no third option of dying and remaining unconscious.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#369
Jul 3, 2015
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#369
Everlasting-Grace said:
when he killed an animal. removed the animal skin, and clothed adam.

If Christ did nto set adam free. adam will not be in heaven
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I think you're reading that into the text... It certainly doesn't say that. Not even the blood of bulls goats could take away sins within the sacrificial system God set up. See Colossians two 17.
 
M

MeowFlower

Well-known member
#372
Aug 25, 2024
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#372
Magenta said:
I think you're reading that into the text... It certainly doesn't say that. Not even the blood of bulls goats could take away sins within the sacrificial system God set up. See Colossians two 17.
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Adams going to Hell?
 
D

dougcho

Member
#373
Oct 28, 2024
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#373
Cameron143 said:
Then I have done a poor job of explaining or you of listening or some of both./QUOTE]

My ex-wife (an American) was Validictorian of her Grade 12 H. S. class.
She said they were taught just to get the general feeling of what was said
instead of really focusing on the value and meaning of words.
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#374
Dec 18, 2021
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#374
GWH said:
I would call this wording not keeping in mind that the Judge should not be blamed for the free sinful choice of evildoers that justifies punishment, which means they are casting themselves into hell in accordance with God's permissive will although His desire is that they repent and join the heavenly fellowship. There is no third option of dying and remaining unconscious.
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well I would agree. they did this to themselves. But Jesus did cast them out from his presence.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#375
Dec 18, 2021
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#375
Magenta said:
I think you're reading that into the text... It certainly doesn't say that. Not even the blood of bulls goats could take away sins within the sacrificial system God set up. See Colossians two 17.
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your right, It was a symbol. this too was a symbol. But we can say that Adam was restored.. And that most likely is when or shortly before that period when Adam repented
 
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