Understanding God’s election
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In the meantime, we hope you will comment on the discussion to help guide our thinking regarding the verses being introduced
and how the couplets can be harmonized. Whatever work on the verses you have time to do will be icing on the cake (hopefully chocolate with boiled white icing :^)
The FWers in this thread, evidently, can't come up with a biblical answer to the question I presented in my 12, 596. They clearly have withdrew themselves from tackling tough questions. Cowards...everyone of them!
I thought this group's translation fit your response well:
CJB Titus3:9-11 But avoid stupid controversies, genealogies, quarrels and fights about the Torah; because they are worthless and futile. 10 Warn a divisive person once, then a second time; and after that, have nothing more to do with him. 11 You may be sure that such a person has been perverted and is sinning: he stands self-condemned.
I also thought this was insightful:
You thought, you thought, you thought. What a pity that all your "thoughts" do nothing to clear the cobwebs out of your attic. Don't you know that it's also written:
Titus 1:9
9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
NIV
And, don't you know you're supposed to have an answer for every man who ask for the reason for the hope that is in you (1Pet 3:15)?
Yes, and I'm refreshed by posters who apply Titus1:9 to refuting your erroneous tradition and Titus3:9-11 to your "stupid controversies" though 3:10 could be better applied by some of us.
Bitter much?
"See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God, and that
no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many."
no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many."
Get over it!
Your choice for your Bible college was a loser's place.
Stop blaming others for your bad choices.
We do not think like you... and by your example.... we are glad of it.
You want to make yourself think that we are all just as stupid as you were.
There are good places....
You come here to vent your bitterness and to prove to yourself, we are just as much a loser as you were.
Bitter much?
"See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God, and that
no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many."
Get over it!
Your choice for your Bible college was a loser's place.
Stop blaming others for your bad choices.
We do not think like you... and by your example.... we are glad of it.
You want to make yourself think that we are all just as stupid as you were.
There are good places....
You come here to vent your bitterness and to prove to yourself, we are just as much a loser as you were.
As usual you miss the point altogether. It's not about conforming your thinking to mine, but rather conforming your thinking to God's who does not think like we mere mortals do. And the proof is in the eating of the pudding because no FWer here can answer my question I asked in 12, 596 which was: What was God's BIBLICAL (operative term) purpose for sending his Son to die for "all men"? Whaddya say, Einstein....do you think you have a clue?
Good Morning, Y'all. Hope everyone had a good night's sleep and that everyone's mind is sharp as a tack, most especially you FW lovers; for I have a question to ask you. Ready? Here it is: You FWers claim that Christ died for all men w/o exception. So, please tell me for what biblical purpose did Christ die for "all" men? Can't wait to hear your replies.
John 3:16.
As usual you miss the point altogether. It's not about conforming your thinking to mine, but rather conforming your thinking to God's who does not think like we mere mortals do. And the proof is in the eating of the pudding because no FWer here can answer my question I asked in 12, 596 which was: What was God's BIBLICAL (operative term) purpose for sending his Son to die for "all men"? Whaddya say, Einstein....do you think you have a clue?
I was pointing out a fundamental and foundational problem you are basing your motivation upon.
You are failing to deal with it.
ROFL! The text does not speak to God's specific purpose behind Christ's death. However, Jn 3:17 fits the bill much better; for that passage says in part that God sent his Son to [actually] save the world [w/o exception] through Him. The text doesn't say that God sent his Son to possibly save the world, or to potentially save the world, or to save believers in the world who freely choose to be saved.
Yet 3:16 and 3:17 both contain the language of purpose and 3:17 is explanation or elaboration of 3:16 the controlling verse which speaks of purpose.
Once again @GWH makes you look the part of the divisive clown.
Okay...FWers, this ol' "bully" is going to slay the FW Goliath that you trust in, rely upon and in which you put all your confidence. Just as David was fearless in the Lord (as I am!) and took the battle to Goliath by running full steam ahead toward him with slingshot in hand, likewise I'll be coming at you full throttle (albeit one passage at a time so that y'all don't go spastic, ballistics or convulsive on me), so gird up what little you have left of your mind to deal with God's truth, which you will not be able to do apart from reading your carnal presuppositions into the passages.
Just don't forget what your carnal presuppositions are re a text like Jn 3:16: God died for each and every person in the world to give each and every person w/o exception the opportunity to effectuate his/her own salvation via a "freewill" choice to repent and believe the gospel. So...let's see how this presupposition works out with passages that explicitly speak to God's purpose in sending his own Son into the world to die for "all" men.
1 Thess 5:9-10
9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.
NIV
So, your first challenge is to determine who are the identities behind the personal pronouns used in this passage, e.g. "us", "our" and "we". But at the same time, you should also remember that the people behind these pronouns are part of the world for whom you FWers allege Christ died. So...what applies to the people being referred to in this passage must logically apply to the entire world in the distributive sense.
Your second challenge is that God's purpose is clearly stated in this passage. Two things are noteworthy in this regard: A.) God's purpose for these people, stated negatively, wasn't to suffer his wrath (v.9) since they were never appointed by God in eternity to suffer condemnation . And B.) God's purpose, expressed in positive terms (v. 10), is that he did appoint the "we" and "us" to live together with him forever.
And again, if all this is true for the "we" and "us" (who are every bit part of the world that God "so loved" and sent his Son to die for), then it must apply to the rest of the world as well. After all, God isn't a respecter of persons, is He? What goes for the goose works for the gander as well, right? Otherwise, God would not be treating all people equally, fairly and identically which is a fundamental tenet of FWT. What God does for one, he must do for all in order to be just, fair and righteous!
Therefore, if FWT is true, Paul is teaching that God's purpose behind Christ's death was not to appoint anyone whatsoever for wrath but to save all w/o exception since the "we" and "us" in the passage will spend all eternity with God because to this they were explicitly appointed -- and, therefore, by extension the entire world was as well! Universal Salvation is clearly taught in this passage when the presuppositions behind FWT are taken to their logical conclusion and applied to a passage like this.
Have fun, folks....
Just don't forget what your carnal presuppositions are re a text like Jn 3:16: God died for each and every person in the world to give each and every person w/o exception the opportunity to effectuate his/her own salvation via a "freewill" choice to repent and believe the gospel. So...let's see how this presupposition works out with passages that explicitly speak to God's purpose in sending his own Son into the world to die for "all" men.
1 Thess 5:9-10
9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.
NIV
So, your first challenge is to determine who are the identities behind the personal pronouns used in this passage, e.g. "us", "our" and "we". But at the same time, you should also remember that the people behind these pronouns are part of the world for whom you FWers allege Christ died. So...what applies to the people being referred to in this passage must logically apply to the entire world in the distributive sense.
Your second challenge is that God's purpose is clearly stated in this passage. Two things are noteworthy in this regard: A.) God's purpose for these people, stated negatively, wasn't to suffer his wrath (v.9) since they were never appointed by God in eternity to suffer condemnation . And B.) God's purpose, expressed in positive terms (v. 10), is that he did appoint the "we" and "us" to live together with him forever.
And again, if all this is true for the "we" and "us" (who are every bit part of the world that God "so loved" and sent his Son to die for), then it must apply to the rest of the world as well. After all, God isn't a respecter of persons, is He? What goes for the goose works for the gander as well, right? Otherwise, God would not be treating all people equally, fairly and identically which is a fundamental tenet of FWT. What God does for one, he must do for all in order to be just, fair and righteous!
Therefore, if FWT is true, Paul is teaching that God's purpose behind Christ's death was not to appoint anyone whatsoever for wrath but to save all w/o exception since the "we" and "us" in the passage will spend all eternity with God because to this they were explicitly appointed -- and, therefore, by extension the entire world was as well! Universal Salvation is clearly taught in this passage when the presuppositions behind FWT are taken to their logical conclusion and applied to a passage like this.
Have fun, folks....
Only in your pipe dream. And besides, I have proved that the term "world" is not used in the distributive sense; it's actually qualified (limited) to those who believe in him. Also, as previously proved extensively, God-fearing, pious Jews NEVER believed that Israel was just another nation in the world among the pagan Gentile nations. And the apostle John often demonstrated this centuries-ingrained mindset in his other writings. God-fearing, God-loving Jews considered themselves to be entirely SEPARATE from the rest of the nations; therefore, logically, the "world" cannot be understood to mean all mankind w/o exception due to the exclusive mindset the ancient Jews had -- a mindset fully supported by scripture.