Understanding God’s election

[Genez]

"Choose"?

Why did you "choose" to accept Calvinism?

 

[rogerg]

Why did you "choose" to accept Calvinism?

I didn't but I do agree with many of its doctrines.

 

[cv5]

Yes, I know, MeowFlower, and thank you, but I and others here hope to edify readers by using the incorrect doctrine of CV5 (and those of his ilk) in order to compare and contrast it with correct doctrine, as aggravating as that may be.

Yes, no doubt that this doctrine I espouse is aggravating.

Aggravating to Satan and his fallen host.
You too eh? Fancy that.

 

[Cameron143]

...

You are able to keep a layer of detachment between you and what motivates, lest you would have to face the real problem.


What I do does not depend upon you accepting what I say.

What is my real problem, oh wise one. And didn't you say you were going to put me on ignore? A little bit dishonest, no?
Some good advice for you is to loosen your bow tie or take it off all together. It doesn't match your footie pajamas anyway. Put on some real clothes, come up out of your mother's basement, and get some fresh air and interact with people face-to-face. It will do you good.

 

[MeowFlower]

Oh, it is definitely God who teaches spiritual discernment by the Holy Spirit to those whom He had elected to receive it, but it seems to me, based upon these verses, that He uses believers as part of that process. One never knows who He might be of His elect - given that God chose Saul (the chief of sinners) and converted him into Paul, it is possible that anyone might be of the elect no matter how unlikely a candidate they may appear to be to us.

[2Co 2:14-17 KJV]
14 Now thanks [be] unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?
17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Sauls name wasn't converted to Paul. The verses say he was also known as Paul.

Also, you might read Paul's personal letters,Epistles, as he speaks of himself in present tense.

 

[Genez]

What is my real problem, oh wise one. And didn't you say you were going to put me on ignore? A little bit dishonest, no?
Some good advice for you is to loosen your bow tie or take it off all together. It doesn't match your footie pajamas anyway. Put on some real clothes, come up out of your mother's basement, and get some fresh air and interact with people face-to-face. It will do you good.

I did put you on ignore....

I came back to remember why.

 

[rogerg]

Sauls name wasn't converted to Paul. The verses say he was also known as Paul.

Also, you might read Paul's personal letters,Epistles, as he speaks of himself in present tense.

Yeah, I meant the essence of person was converted.

 

[Cameron143]

I did put you on ignore....

I came back to remember why.

I think deep down you just missed me. It's ok to admit it.

 

[brightfame52]

To grant, means to 'allow.'

They were given a chance to recover.

Thats absolutely false, to grant does not mean to allow and or give a chance. The word is didōmi and its prominent meaning is:

1. to give
2. to give something to someone
   1. of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
      1. to bestow a gift
   2. to grant, give to one asking, let have
   3. to supply, furnish, necessary things
   4. to give over, deliver

In Acts 11:18 it meas:

to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18;

Its a New Covenant blessing Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

[cv5]

Thats absolutely false, to grant does not mean to allow and or give a chance. The word is didōmi and its prominent meaning is:

1. to give
2. to give something to someone
   1. of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
      1. to bestow a gift
   2. to grant, give to one asking, let have
   3. to supply, furnish, necessary things
   4. to give over, deliver

In Acts 11:18 it meas:

to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18;

Its a New Covenant blessing Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Given to whom exactly?

The pre-birth lottery winner robots?
Or those who earnestly seek after the Promise and the Truth?
Oh and BTW, it looks like we have TWO seekers here don't we?
Thats right, two seekers = two independent wills.

[Mat 7:7 KJV]
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

[Luk 19:10 KJV]
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

[cv5]

Looks like we have two distinct "WILLS" here as well.....right?
That right, God created Satan and the angelic host with free will.....which they most certainly exercised.
But tragically by doing their own will and not God's will.

[Isa 14:13 KJV]
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

[Isa 14:14 KJV]
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

=======================================================================

[Eze 28:16 KJV]
By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

[Eze 28:17 KJV]
Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

[Eze 28:18 KJV]
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

 

[cv5]

What is this "I WILL NOT" business anyways?
Refusing the Lord God right to His face huh? Wow.
And yes, Jacob's main characteristic was that he was to "hang on" to his God all of his days.
Which of course why he is a hero of faith of Hebrews 11 (mentioned 3 times!), who "prevailed" therefore was an "OVERCOMER".

[Gen 32:24 KJV]
And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

[Gen 32:25 KJV]
And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

[Gen 32:26 KJV]
And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

[Gen 32:27 KJV]
And he said unto him, What [is] thy name? And he said, Jacob.

[Gen 32:28 KJV]
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed H3201 .

The KJV translates Strong's H3201 in the following manner: could (46x), able (43x), cannot (34x), prevail (22x), may (16x), can (12x), canst (5x), endure (2x), might (2x), miscellaneous (13x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to prevail, overcome, endure, have power, be able
   1. (Qal)
      1. to be able, be able to gain or accomplish, be able to endure, be able to reach
      2. to prevail, prevail over or against, overcome, be victor
      3. to have ability, have strength

 

[HeIsHere]

Then explain why the bible describes unbelievers as helpless souls whom God must rescue from the dominion of darkness. Or does God rescue only those who are self-empowered to help themselves?

When God "came down" and "rescued" the ancient Israelites in Egypt, were they helpless or self-empowered?

This is just a lens you see everything through, total depravity/inability.
Jesus stated clearly,
35 “I am the bread of life,” Jesus told them. “Those who come to me will never be hungry; those who believe in me will never be thirsty. 36 Now, I told you that you have seen me but will not believe.


It does not say those I make have belief or those I give belief.

But you won't see it. To preach against the words of Jesus is a serious thing.

 

[HeIsHere]

My question to you is:

Why are you not going out into the world and accurately preaching YOUR form of the gospel.
The one that you supposedly believe and espouse endlessly on this board?

You know:
-pre-birth condemnation for all
-no free will whatsoever for anybody
-salvation is predicated SOLELY upon a cosmic lottery that only God controls
-all marriages to the Bridegroom are shotgun weddings
-all covenants are forged in bad faith and meant to fail
-repentance and a change of heart can NEVER happen legitimately

So when you get off this message board, are you preaching a false gospel out there that you despise?
Are you faking it? And then when you DO draw disciples into the Calvinite web, do you then drop the
Calvinite doctrinal hammer on them after they get hooked?

But what is worse, are you trying to convince others to do the same?

Exactly and exactly!!

 

[HeIsHere]

Bumped up again. I do not think anyone answered.

by @cv5

My question to you is:

Why are you not going out into the world and accurately preaching YOUR form of the gospel.
The one that you supposedly believe and espouse endlessly on this board?

You know:
-pre-birth condemnation for all
-no free will whatsoever for anybody
-salvation is predicated SOLELY upon a cosmic lottery that only God controls
-all marriages to the Bridegroom are shotgun weddings
-all covenants are forged in bad faith and meant to fail
-repentance and a change of heart can NEVER happen legitimately

So when you get off this message board, are you preaching a false gospel out there that you despise?
Are you faking it? And then when you DO draw disciples into the Calvinite web, do you then drop the
Calvinite doctrinal hammer on them after they get hooked?

But what is worse, are you trying to convince others to do the same?

 

[HeIsHere]

I did put you on ignore....

I came back to remember why.

There is little common ground with people who assert this TULIP system. They believe Christ Jesus only died for some and that God only loves them, this has to have an impact on a person's psyche over time.

They live up to the stereotype over and over again.

It can start okay, but ultimately because of their theology and their constant need for affirmation of a wrong doctrine (dunno,maybe deep down the know they are wrong) it ends up going sour.

Probably some are Christians but their doctrine stunts their growth despite all the intellectualism of their leaders like Piper, Sproul, MacArthur, Begg, Baucham etc.,etc.,

As someone once told me, Calvinist are okay until they start talking about their doctrines, I find this to be so true with people like Baucham etc., and even on here.

 

[Cameron143]

Bumped up again. I do not think anyone answered.

by @cv5

My question to you is:

Why are you not going out into the world and accurately preaching YOUR form of the gospel.
The one that you supposedly believe and espouse endlessly on this board?

You know:
-pre-birth condemnation for all
-no free will whatsoever for anybody
-salvation is predicated SOLELY upon a cosmic lottery that only God controls
-all marriages to the Bridegroom are shotgun weddings
-all covenants are forged in bad faith and meant to fail
-repentance and a change of heart can NEVER happen legitimately

So when you get off this message board, are you preaching a false gospel out there that you despise?
Are you faking it? And then when you DO draw disciples into the Calvinite web, do you then drop the
Calvinite doctrinal hammer on them after they get hooked?

But what is worse, are you trying to convince others to do the same?

The gospel is Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

 

[HeIsHere]

The gospel is Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

That really is not the full message, you left out the personal component.

 

[cv5]

The gospel is Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

Oh but there is a component of willingness to go with it.
And you must be WILLING to enter into the New Covenant with the Kinsman Redeemer.
God is not into shotgun weddings. Takes away from His Glory.

[Jhn 7:17 KJV]
If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

[Luk 11:28 KJV]
But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

 

[Cameron143]

That really is not the full message, you left out the personal component.

Doesn't the fact that God sent a messenger to declare the gospel personalize the gospel?