Ukraine & The American Right

[flowingpathUK]

I have a question regarding Christian Americans and their views on the Ukraine conflict, specifically the financial and military aid provided by the USA. Essentially Billions of foreign aid and weapons.

Going on twitter and the various talking heads on that platform, the American right pundits seem mostly against this aid being provided. My question is why? It feels the American right is trending towards isolationism.

 

[ZNP]

I have a question regarding Christian Americans and their views on the Ukraine conflict, specifically the financial and military aid provided by the USA. Essentially Billions of foreign aid and weapons.

Going on twitter and the various talking heads on that platform, the American right pundits seem mostly against this aid being provided. My question is why? It feels the American right is trending towards isolationism.

1. We do not have a pact with Ukraine, supplying them with military aid as we have done seems extremely provocative towards a world war.

2. If NATO decides to aid Ukraine then of course, the US should as a NATO partner. But the US should not interfere in Ukraine and Russia outside of the NATO umbrella. First and foremost it should be the Europeans that supervise any aid sent.

3. There is a lot of misinformation. No one is going to deny that Putin and Russia are "bad guys" but I think Ukraine was #3 on the list of countries with human rights abuses. They are a totalitarian regime with Zelensky arresting political rivals and censoring any and all dissent. We have also see lots of signs that Ukraine is aligned with Nazis. Russia has claimed that Russians in the Eastern part of the country were being abused. If this is true then I would support Russia. So many of us are not buying the idea that Ukraine are the good guys and Russia are the bad guys.

4. Kamala Harris was encouraging Ukraine to join NATO and for us to put nuclear missiles in Ukraine that would be able to hit Moscow in five minutes. If Russia did this in Cuba we would go to war, so we feel it is hypocritical for the US to not give Russia the same respect. We see Kamala Harris as intentionally provoking Russia.

5. There is no accounting for where the weapons are going. There is a lot of concern with how much weapons we are sending to Ukraine and how much we left in Afghanistan causing more harm than good.

6. Joe Biden and His son are linked to Ukraine and that link is corrupt. The idea that Joe Biden is sending billions and billions to Ukraine looks like he has something to hide. America is not going to go to war with Russia to help Joe hide his dirty laundry.

7. We have had 2 million illegals cross our Southern border as well as a very large number of "got aways" that we don't even count. The Democrats complained over and over that $4 billion to finish that wall was too expensive and we couldn't afford it. Yet when Ukraine's border is violated Biden instantly sends them $50 billion. This does not pass the smell test.

 

[Dirtman]

2. If NATO decides to aid Ukraine then of course, the US should as a NATO partner. But the US should not interfere in Ukraine and Russia outside of the NATO umbrella. First and foremost it should be the Europeans that supervise any aid sent

This is where I disagree with you. When NATO provokes an unjust war, we have a moral obligation to decline, even if it is our own politicians that NATO uses to provoke said war.
That being said I agree with everything else you posted here.
NATO and America hasnt been good guys here either.

 

[arthurfleminger]

As most on this thread, I'd like to see Putin and Russia fail in their attempt to takeover the Ukraine. That being said, I have little sympathy for the Ukrainian government, it's people, or the country. The reason that I have no compassion for Ukraine and it's people is simple. The empire of the Soviet Union completely collapsed at the end of 1991, over thirty years ago.

Since that time 14 countries that were integrated into the Soviet Union left their camp. This included 7 Warsaw Pact nations, nations that committed themselves to fighting on the side of the Soviet Union in future wars. These 14 countries gladly embraced and joined NATO, the powerful North Atlantic Treaty Organization that has held Russia in check since the end of WWII. They joined to offer their support against Russian aggression. Read:

The 14 Former Soviet and Soviet-aligned Republics That Joined NATO After the Cold War – 24/7 Wall St. (247wallst.com)

But, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine embraced Russia and pledged it's loyalty to the Communist regime. Many Ukranians still support Russia and would like to see the Ukraine reincorporated into the Russian sphere.

Russia is having a hard time in conquering Ukraine, but Russia is a weakling when compared to NATO and it's powerful allies. Russia would not dare attack any NATO country.

Ukraine failed to liberate itself from Russia, instead pledging it's loyalty. And now it's paying the price. Ukraine refused to support NATO and now it wants NATO to pull it's ass out of the fire.

Does NATO owe the Ukraine it's support in weapons and materials? No it does not. But it is good that NATO is supporting Ukraine in it's war against Russia. Russia has supported all of NATO's enemies, in their wars against insurgenst, with weapons and material assistnce. And it's payback time.

Russia is seeking to revive it's empire and the cold war. Russia is showing it's true colors. And, with the help of NATO's support, Ukraine is rubbing Russia's nose in it.

 

[flowingpathUK]

The fact is America has created a western world reliant on its military and economic dominance since WW2. They happily took the reins from the collapse of the European powers that ended up bankrupt and destroyed following WW2.

1) Its in American interests to see Russia fail, why? To ensure China doesnt move on Tiawan. (The real threat to american dominance)

2) America is the global superpower; they lead the west. Not the other way around.

3) what-aboutism, Russia gathered its army and cross the borders. They launched a war on fellow slavs.

4) US already has bases across europe (since WW2), this is a moot point. Russian aggression has pushed historically neutral countries into NATO.

5) Ukraine is not overun with Islamic terrorists.

6) Agreed. But this has nothing to do with Biden or his son, this is Putin's legacy at stake. He released a statment on his goals with Ukraine.

7) The American left (politicians) have no interest to close the border, that's more voters in the books.
However again this is irrelevant, its in American interests to see Russia fail in this war. America does not want the rise of a world outside of its control. I also believe its morally justified to help a nation defend itself from aggression.

1. We do not have a pact with Ukraine, supplying them with military aid as we have done seems extremely provocative towards a world war.

2. If NATO decides to aid Ukraine then of course, the US should as a NATO partner. But the US should not interfere in Ukraine and Russia outside of the NATO umbrella. First and foremost it should be the Europeans that supervise any aid sent.

3. There is a lot of misinformation. No one is going to deny that Putin and Russia are "bad guys" but I think Ukraine was #3 on the list of countries with human rights abuses. They are a totalitarian regime with Zelensky arresting political rivals and censoring any and all dissent. We have also see lots of signs that Ukraine is aligned with Nazis. Russia has claimed that Russians in the Eastern part of the country were being abused. If this is true then I would support Russia. So many of us are not buying the idea that Ukraine are the good guys and Russia are the bad guys.

4. Kamala Harris was encouraging Ukraine to join NATO and for us to put nuclear missiles in Ukraine that would be able to hit Moscow in five minutes. If Russia did this in Cuba we would go to war, so we feel it is hypocritical for the US to not give Russia the same respect. We see Kamala Harris as intentionally provoking Russia.

5. There is no accounting for where the weapons are going. There is a lot of concern with how much weapons we are sending to Ukraine and how much we left in Afghanistan causing more harm than good.

6. Joe Biden and His son are linked to Ukraine and that link is corrupt. The idea that Joe Biden is sending billions and billions to Ukraine looks like he has something to hide. America is not going to go to war with Russia to help Joe hide his dirty laundry.

7. We have had 2 million illegals cross our Southern border as well as a very large number of "got aways" that we don't even count. The Democrats complained over and over that $4 billion to finish that wall was too expensive and we couldn't afford it. Yet when Ukraine's border is violated Biden instantly sends them $50 billion. This does not pass the smell test.

 

[ZNP]

The fact is America has created a western world reliant on its military and economic dominance since WW2. They happily took the reins from the collapse of the European powers that ended up bankrupt and destroyed following WW2.

1) Its in American interests to see Russia fail, why? To ensure China doesnt move on Tiawan. (The real threat to american dominance)

2) America is the global superpower; they lead the west. Not the other way around.

3) what-aboutism, Russia gathered its army and cross the borders. They launched a war on fellow slavs.

4) US already has bases across europe (since WW2), this is a moot point. Russian aggression has pushed historically neutral countries into NATO.

5) Ukraine is not overun with Islamic terrorists.

6) Agreed. But this has nothing to do with Biden or his son, this is Putin's legacy at stake. He released a statment on his goals with Ukraine.

7) The American left (politicians) have no interest to close the border, that's more voters in the books.
However again this is irrelevant, its in American interests to see Russia fail in this war. America does not want the rise of a world outside of its control. I also believe its morally justified to help a nation defend itself from aggression.

We will see how this post of yours pushing for US agression against Russia ages. I suspect we will get a Pearl Harbor like surprise attack from Russia that will destroy the US as a superpower. This will be due to America's arrogance, and the fact that she has left off following the Lord.

The deterrent to a nuclear attack is not a bigger military, the deterrent is what will the rest of the world think. I suspect everything Russia has done recently has given them all the evidence they need to justify such an attack in the eyes of the rest of the world, that is US involvement in the pandemic/vaccine.

 

[flowingpathUK]

We will see how this post of yours pushing for US agression against Russia ages. I suspect we will get a Pearl Harbor like surprise attack from Russia that will destroy the US as a superpower. This will be due to America's arrogance, and the fact that she has left off following the Lord.

The deterrent to a nuclear attack is not a bigger military, the deterrent is what will the rest of the world think. I suspect everything Russia has done recently has given them all the evidence they need to justify such an attack in the eyes of the rest of the world, that is US involvement in the pandemic/vaccine.

I am sorry but your so far off base here.

Russia will never attack American soil, why? Its pointless. They have a GDP of less than one of your own states! They are not a superpower. American policy makers know this, and China is the focus (see Tiawan). Do you have any idea how closely China is watching Ukraine? How West reacts, if they have the stomach for confrontation? Why do you think Biden is rushing to set up chip processing in the states? Tiawan is KEY here.

I do find the American isolationism idea so strange. It is directly in American interests to be proactive on the world stage. They built new world order post WW2, they will maintain it until the wheels fall off. I dont think any western person is excited for a multipolar world, with fascist countries and anti-Christian regimes leading the way!

 

[ZNP]

I am sorry but your so far off base here.

Russia will never attack American soil, why? Its pointless. They have a GDP of less than one of your own states! They are not a superpower. American policy makers know this, and China is the focus (see Tiawan). Do you have any idea how closely China is watching Ukraine? How West reacts, if they have the stomach for confrontation? Why do you think Biden is rushing to set up chip processing in the states? Tiawan is KEY here.

I do find the American isolationism idea so strange. It is directly in American interests to be proactive on the world stage. They built new world order post WW2, they will maintain it until the wheels fall off. I dont think any western person is excited for a multipolar world, with fascist countries and anti-Christian regimes leading the way!

Are you an American? I think if you are going to encourage a war between two nuclear powers we should have an idea of what you have at stake. I sure hope others remember what you have written here after Russia attacks. Russia is aligned with China, together they have a bigger military and a bigger economy.

Russia has also developed a nuclear missile designed to create Tsunamis 500 feet high and they will be able to hit the entire coastline of the US with these without any way to stop them. 65% of Americans live within five miles of the coastline.

The pandemic is an act of war, the invasion on our southern border is an act of war. The US is already at war with both Russia and China, if you don't realize it yet, that is on you.

 

[flowingpathUK]

Are you an American? I think if you are going to encourage a war between two nuclear powers we should have an idea of what you have at stake.

Irish/ UK.

You want to return to a policy of appeasement? That worked for Europe in 1939. Just let Putin retake eastern Europe and put up the iron curtain again. It may be best to study history and see where appeasements with dictators leads.

 

[ZNP]

Irish/ UK.

You want to return to a policy of appeasement? That worked for Europe in 1939. Just let Putin retake eastern Europe and put up the iron curtain again. It may be best to study history and see where appeasements with dictators leads.

Don't put words in my mouth. The die is already cast. This war began seven years ago. Just because you still haven't figured it out doesn't mean we all are living under a rock.

What I want is for people in Ireland that want to go to war with Russia to do it. You don't need to call on America to come save your butt, go ahead, you are a warlike people, go for it.

 

[flowingpathUK]

Putin already threatened Ireland and UK, with nukes. His puppet Lavrov said he will make the UK desolate with one nuke. Your safer than me in this current climate, but focus on the poor people looking for a better life crossing the border. Thats the Christian way.

Again American isolationism, head in the sand mentality. If you think American doesn't benefit from being involved in Ukraine that's your own ignorance not mine. conspiracies are not fact.

 

[ZNP]

Putin already threatened Ireland and UK, with nukes. His puppet Lavrov said he will make the UK desolate with one nuke. Your safer than me in this current climate, but focus on the poor people looking for a better life crossing the border. Thats the Christian way.

Again American isolationism, head in the sand mentality. If you think American doesn't benefit from being involved in Ukraine that's your own ignorance not mine. conspiracies are not fact.

Instead of telling other people what they should do, just be the example for the rest of us to see.

So tell me, the UK used to be the super power on this Earth, so what are you going to do. Forget about the US. What are you, in the UK going to do?

 

[ZNP]

I am sorry but your so far off base here.

Russia will never attack American soil, why? Its pointless. They have a GDP of less than one of your own states!

Interesting point, Russia has a lower GDP than the UK! Not by a little, by a lot! This attack on the Ukraine is in the backyard of the UK. Surely they can remember the result of appeasing a tyrant so I asked flowingpathUK what the UK was going to do? Obviously if you want the US to come to your aid you need to be at the front of the spear. Get Germany and France to help you, then your combined GDP will be much, much greater than Russia.

Why is this our war? We are currently about to go to war with China, I think Europe and NATO can handle Russia.

These are the same people who mocked Trump when he told them they needed to pay their fair share for their national defense. This is the only way they will learn.

 

[Polar]

I have a question regarding Christian Americans and their views on the Ukraine conflict, specifically the financial and military aid provided by the USA. Essentially Billions of foreign aid and weapons.

Going on twitter and the various talking heads on that platform, the American right pundits seem mostly against this aid being provided. My question is why? It feels the American right is trending towards isolationism.

Actually and I am a Libertarian and neither left nor right, that is because the current mashup in the White House is letting illegals into the country so as to create another state with a population that rivals other states. Millions...oh wait did I say millions? Billions are being thrown away on this activity of a wide open border and sensible people are fed up with their tax dollars spent by a government that churns out paper money with no gold to back it up

This country was energy independent less than 2 yrs ago and now is making nice with countries that want to annihilate it.

This country is under delusion and deception by the illusionists who are inspired by their father and those who are awake can scream from the roof tops and wisdom cries out in pain

Did you see the fiasco of the US leaving Afghanistan? No more wars, right? Wrong! It seems we are fighting a proxy war on behalf of Ukraine. And now the person in the White House whom some have mistaken for the president, says that there will be Americans fighting China over Taiwan. Oh good. And all the little elves run around trying to do damage control.

America is trending towards being bankrupt is what it is trending towards and not by the people of the country, but by the quasi communists who are dictating to the people.

And that's not the half of it

 

[Hazelelponi]

I have a question regarding Christian Americans and their views on the Ukraine conflict, specifically the financial and military aid provided by the USA. Essentially Billions of foreign aid and weapons.

Going on twitter and the various talking heads on that platform, the American right pundits seem mostly against this aid being provided. My question is why? It feels the American right is trending towards isolationism.

The American right has traditionally been isolationist. Globalists who run on the republican ticket are a new invention.

I believe we have a certain moral responsibility to help others achieve diplomatic truces that benefit everyone.

But all this running around the world playing 'what regime do we want in power today', is first and foremost expensive, and secondly it's quite unappreciated. We certainly aren't winning hearts and minds with all this.

As a result, I'd like to see the world start resolving much of it's own differences and go back to a more isolated stance. Doesn't have to be totally isolated, but we need to pull way way back.

NATO is nothing but a joke these days, I mean they included Turkey so that makes NATO utterly meaningless. May as well just dissolve it.

As far as Ukraine - it's not our business. Which lying manipulative dictator do I like best isn't a game I'm going to play.

 

[Polar]

I have a question regarding Christian Americans and their views on the Ukraine conflict, specifically the financial and military aid provided by the USA. Essentially Billions of foreign aid and weapons.

Going on twitter and the various talking heads on that platform, the American right pundits seem mostly against this aid being provided. My question is why? It feels the American right is trending towards isolationism.

one more thing

don't go on social media and believe you are reading the whole truth and nothing but the truth

 

[SomeDisciple]

This has nothing to do with isolationism- prudent interventionism is fine... this thing with Ukraine is a mess. When you have the Ukrainian Navy and Crimea and huge chunks of Ukraine defecting to Russia... What are we doing? Sticking our nose in someone else's garbage, and making ourselves sick in the process. I see no moral obligation whatsoever to do what we are doing, or to do anything else.

The cold war is going to go on forever now. Who is that good for? I guess if you manufacture weapons of war, this is pretty awesome. Job security, man! Or maybe the cold war will end with the beginning of WW3... why not? All because we want to protect a government on the other side of the world that is despised by a bunch of it's own people? That doesn't make sense to me.

God knows what's up, though. He will get this sorted out for us in his own time. I try not to make moral judgements when it comes to wars unless one side is overwhelmingly more ungodly than the other. The Lord is the only sovereign, and he has providence over all nations. UN regulations do not determine or overrule what God has determined.

If you think American doesn't benefit from being involved in Ukraine that's your own ignorance not mine.

I'm always open to persuasion. How specifically do you believe America benefits from being involved in Ukraine?

 

[flowingpathUK]

Instead of telling other people what they should do, just be the example for the rest of us to see.

So tell me, the UK used to be the super power on this Earth, so what are you going to do. Forget about the US. What are you, in the UK going to do?

The UK are already helping, being the most pro-active outside the US. Including arms, money and training. Thats why they ended up on Putins hit list. Not to mention Boris Johnson for all his flaws, leading the way with his pro-Ukrainian lobbying of other EU states.

 

[flowingpathUK]

Actually and I am a Libertarian and neither left nor right, that is because the current mashup in the White House is letting illegals into the country so as to create another state with a population that rivals other states. Millions...oh wait did I say millions? Billions are being thrown away on this activity of a wide open border and sensible people are fed up with their tax dollars spent by a government that churns out paper money with no gold to back it up

This country was energy independent less than 2 yrs ago and now is making nice with countries that want to annihilate it.

This country is under delusion and deception by the illusionists who are inspired by their father and those who are awake can scream from the roof tops and wisdom cries out in pain

Did you see the fiasco of the US leaving Afghanistan? No more wars, right? Wrong! It seems we are fighting a proxy war on behalf of Ukraine. And now the person in the White House whom some have mistaken for the president, says that there will be Americans fighting China over Taiwan. Oh good. And all the little elves run around trying to do damage control.

America is trending towards being bankrupt is what it is trending towards and not by the people of the country, but by the quasi communists who are dictating to the people.

And that's not the half of it

The majority of this is conspiracy talking points. Im a fan of Trump, but Afghanistan was his deal. Biden and co just made a damn mess of it.

You arent fighting any wars, your providing support to Ukraine. You know that 800B P/A military complex needs paid, that money goes back into American corporations.

Again this is the idea that America cant both fix its border issues and other domestic issues, while also having a pro-active foreign policy.

 

[ZNP]

The UK are already helping, being the most pro-active outside the US. Including arms, money and training. Thats why they ended up on Putins hit list. Not to mention Boris Johnson for all his flaws, leading the way with his pro-Ukrainian lobbying of other EU states.

OK, well the US is part of NATO so we will do our part, NATO takes the lead.

You don't need to worry, Joe Biden is a strong President who took care of corn pop, the only thing is if there is an emergency make sure it isn't after 4pm EST because that is when he takes his nap. The best time for an emergency is between 10am and 3pm EST.

One other thing, Jesus is the only name in which there is salvation.