Two questions

  • Thread starter Thread starter pottersclay
  • Start date Start date
  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
DarnellPistachio said:
Okay, let us reason with that logic. Why the crucifixion? If He can do what He wants (which I agree He can) and He desires ALL to be saved (which I agree He does) then why not let everyone into "Heaven?"

The only answer is because He is bound to laws that He Himself created for us. By this I mean, justice by His own definition is not served unless Christ be crucified.
Click to expand...

a. He is bound by his Holy nature and character
b. He tells us exactly why he destroyed the world that then was by water in Genesis 6
c. He has DONE everything possible to save every man except BELIEVE for them.....and men LOVE darkness and will not come to the light
 
  • Like
Reactions: preacher1611 and eternally-gratefull
DarnellPistachio said:
I am not arguing any of that. It is irrelevant to what I said.
Click to expand...

No, actually it is not....Adam and EVE were made in God's image.....and when they ate of the tree they DIED spiritually and that DEAD spiritual nature is PASSED from ADAM unto ALL humanity and exactly why ONE must BE born again from above SPIRITUALLY to see, perceive and ENTER the kingdom of HEAVEN.....

It had EVERYTHING to do with what you said.....
 
DarnellPistachio said:
Adam died spiritually? That is not scriptural. That is a definition given to it by man to appease himself. i.e. "the day you eat of it you will surely die."
.
Click to expand...

Welp. I guess this explains it all. :rolleyes:

Adam died the moment he ate of the tree yet lived for 900 years.

But I guess God is a liar.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dcontroversal
eternally-gratefull said:
Welp. I guess this explains it all. :rolleyes:

Adam died the moment he ate of the tree yet lived for 900 years.

But I guess God is a liar.
Click to expand...

I have always been perplexed by some of the things people come up with when a simple cursory reading of the bible will prove some views erroneous...........and even more when actually studied while being open to what it actually lays bare.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: eternally-gratefull
DarnellPistachio said:
We can then conclude, that the death was caused by the revocation of permission to eat of the tree of life, NOT by the eating of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. There is no wriggle room.
Click to expand...

This is somewhat in error, as Christians we are eating of the tree of life and drinking of the water of life as Jesus said:

John 7:38-39 Let the one who believes in me drink. Just as the scripture says, 'From within him will flow rivers of living water.'

Now he said this about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were going to receive, for the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Yet all Christians have physically died just as Adam did.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eternally-gratefull
dcontroversal said:
I have always been perplexed by some of the things people come up with when a simple cursory reading of the bible will prove some views erroneous...........and even more when actually studied while being open to what it actually lays bare.....
Click to expand...

There is a thing called dead in trespasses and sins. Spiritual death. Ephesians 2:1.

Also if one died for all, all were dead. Don't have a Bible here to give location, but I'm sure you've read iy

Elementary stuff, guys. Bible 101
 
  • Like
Reactions: pottersclay
There is a thing called dead in trespasses and sins. Spiritual death. Ephesians 2:1.

Also if one died for all, all were dead. Not sure of the scripture location, but scholars like you should know about it

Elementary stuff, guys. Bible 101[/QUOTE]
 
  • Like
Reactions: preacher1611 and pottersclay
Macabeus said:
There is a thing called dead in trespasses and sins. Spiritual death. Ephesians 2:1.

Also if one died for all, all were dead. Not sure of the scripture location, but scholars like you should know about it

Elementary stuff, guys. Bible 101
Click to expand...
Yep, DC and EG got this one right. Kudos
 
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: azamzimtoti
So what was the death that the garden couple experienced......... spiritual, physical, or something else?

What is the image of God? Is man the only ones created in it?
 
pottersclay said:
So what was the death that the garden couple experienced......... spiritual, physical, or something else?
Click to expand...

Spiritual separation/alienation from God. Call it spiritual death if you wish.

pottersclay said:
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, .
Click to expand...

Col 1:21 (and although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds)
 
  • Like
Reactions: eternally-gratefull
seed_time_harvest said:
Although EVERYTHING was created by GOD, man had a choice,a choice to obedient or disobedient,he chose not to listen to the voice of GOD and the consequence was the sin nature,Adam chose to listen to a voice that was contrary to GODs WORD.
Click to expand...

no, the consequence was the *knowledge* of sin nature, and the revocation of permission to eat of the tree of life.
 
posthuman said:
Adam was not deceived​
(1 Timothy 2:14)​
Click to expand...

I write you a solid paragraph, and have the decency, even if only for the flow of conversation, or your own convenience, to include the scripture. you pick, choose and scoff. Address the scripture I am quoting, do not derail the point, or go digging for my older posts to just nitpick at me. Thank you in advance, or I will simply cease discussions with you.
 
Romans 5:12-19 is clear for your first question.

Adam and Eve was created without a sin nature, but after they sin, all their descendants are now born with a free gift, a sin nature inherited from Adam's disobedience.

Only when we understand that it is the sin nature that made us sinners, rather than our own individual sins, then we can understand how are we saved by Jesus's obedience, not our own individual obedience.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 
pottersclay said:
1. Did God create man with a sin nature.
2. Does God view sin different if we are tricked by the devil. vrs listening to another.
Please be civil and present scripture proof. Personal opinions are just that. If you bring popcorn be willing to share. And please don't derail.
Click to expand...

John the Baptist.
11 I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matt 11

42 He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.
Luke 1

John the Baptist was "saved" from birth, because he had the Holy Spirit and served a specific ministry.

The sin nature is no more than a heart without communion with God. It will always go towards selfishness,
hardness and sin.

1 Answered - So yes God did create man with a sin nature, because this is just a heart without communion with God.

Sin at its core is rebellion against God and His ways, and its root is a lost heart without communion to Him.
Paul describes innocence of his position and rebellion.

13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man,
I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.
1 Tim 1

This suggests if one has knowledge of God, and is not ignorant of Him, and one still rebels this will not
be forgiven.

2 Answered - So no, the source of deception is not our guilt, but the attitude we have to God.
 
DarnellPistachio said:
I write you a solid paragraph, and have the decency, even if only for the flow of conversation, or your own convenience, to include the scripture. you pick, choose and scoff. Address the scripture I am quoting, do not derail the point, or go digging for my older posts to just nitpick at me. Thank you in advance, or I will simply cease discussions with you.
Click to expand...

You were wrong on a certain point which was fundamental to other points of your rhetoric.
What you said was a direct contradiction to scripture.

I pointed this out to you concisely and without puffy elaboration. I am sorry that you do not appreciate my being succinct.

Something was lacking; I saw it, and gave it to you, without undue fuss.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Didymous
TooFastTurtle said:
1. No. Proof: God created man and said it was "good" in Genesis. Additionally if God would have created man with a sin nature, it would mean God is the author of sin.

2. No. Proof: God punished Adam and Eve for being deceived by the devil with horrific consequences that are with us to this day.
Click to expand...


Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back