Two Natures???

[John146]

“The natural body, because of sin, “

jesus didn’t sin . That’s why his body didn’t decay …

weve all sinned that’s why our body dies and decays ….

We are just in a disagreement. I'm ok with that brother.

I believe that everyone born of Adam has a dying body because of his sin. We are born with a sin nature, and all will eventually sin. Jesus was not of Adam, but of God. He did not have Adam's bloodline flowing through him, but God's blood.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

We are just in a disagreement. I'm ok with that brother.

I believe that everyone born of Adam has a dying body because of his sin. We are born with a sin nature, and all will eventually sin. Jesus was not of Adam, but of God. He did not have Adam's bloodline flowing through him, but God's blood.

Yes I’m alright with it also bro . We definately fundamentally disagree on that point … but it’s just a discussion and god knows

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him,

and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:20-21‬ ‭

 

[posthuman]

brother do you think I’m saying Jesus was corrupted at any time ?

Of course not =)

Just pointing out that "it is sown in corruption" cannot possibly refer to His flesh

 

[posthuman]

The reason Jesus could be tempted is because he became flesh he became a man like we are flesh and blood .

James 1:14​

But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.​

James tells us temptation comes from evil desire in our hearts. He does not have evil in His heart.

the same word can mean tested - - God cannot be tempted; when speaking of Christ it is an English mistranslation to say He was tempted

 

[Pilgrimshope]

James 1:14​

But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.​

James tells us temptation comes from evil desire in our hearts. He does not have evil in His heart.

the same word can mean tested - - God cannot be tempted; when speaking of Christ it is an English mistranslation to say He was tempted

“the same word can mean tested - - God cannot be tempted; when speaking of Christ it is an English mistranslation to say He was tempted”

So when it says this

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That means tempted but when it says this

“For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

One means tested and one means tempted ? Based upon what brother just that it supports your opinion ?

why does this mean tested

in that he himself hath suffered being tempted,

but the next sentence same word means tempted ?

he is able to succour them that are tempted.”

Impersonally don’t think that’s a solid argument . Tell me why the words are wrong in one place and not another ?

and can you acknowledge it says he was “ tested” ( since you insist ) in every way like we are and yet he didn’t sin ?

Which sort of negates changing the word . either way he was tested like we are and didn’t sin like we do or like it says there he was tempted in every way like we are and didn’t sin .

it’s pretty odd tbat sometimes verses like this are absolutely what they say

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But this gets erased because it’s wrong

“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after that
“Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:11‬ ‭

“And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭

all this stuff is just wrong because of way we have been taught and told and stuff like this just couldn’t possibly be true

“For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s no way to make Jesus temptation different from ours even if you change the word it makes the point he faced the same “ test” we face and didn’t sin like we do . It says that he felt what we feel that he was tempted at all points like we are and yet didn’t sin .

It was necassary for him to qualify as high priest

“For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because he went through what we do the same exact thing he’s able to strengthen us so we too can overcome temptation

Also he was tempted on our behalf , just like he died on our behalf

Seems pretty plainly put you can change the word to tested but ot wasn’t any different from the temptations we face

often we have learned things and they are set in us so even when we read something plain it’s hard to accept but honestly there are scriptures explaining that Jesus was tempted and there aren’t any that says Jesus was never tempteda


God is a spirit he can’t be tempted the messiah the son of man was absolutely tempted and never sinned .

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Of course not =)

Just pointing out that "it is sown in corruption" cannot possibly refer to His flesh

Yeah you aren’t getting me lol tbat quote is about our resurrection not Jesus resurrection

this isn’t Paul explaining how Jesus rose, you keep tying it back to the wrong subject

it’s him telling us about how we who did sin and are corrupt will rise he’s saying our bodies are corrupt because of sin , and will die and the body that raises up , will not be the one that’s down in corruption it won’t be the natural body we have of flesh and blood but a spiritual eternal body made for the eternal kingdom of God not this earth again we aren’t being redeemed to do this again bro this old tent is gonna be left behind and we have mansions waiting

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Of course not =)

Just pointing out that "it is sown in corruption" cannot possibly refer to His flesh

“Just pointing out that "it is sown in corruption" cannot possibly refer to His flesh”

see this isn’t about Jesus flesh it’s Paul telling us about our resurrection bodies who had sin not Jesus who had no sin

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

it is sown a natural body;

it is raised a spiritual body.

1 There is a natural body,

2 and there is a spiritual body.

Now this I say, brethren, that (1) flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth 1 corruption inherit 2 incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35, 43-44, 50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Part of the message of Jesus being born in the flesh and blood like we are is the message from god “ I’ve been where you’ve been , of felt like you feel sometimes I’ve felt sorrow , I’ve endured pain , I’ve prayed to God , I’ve feared and reached for him on a crisis I’ve offered him supplications and tears, I’ve bled I’ve been just like you are …..and because of that I’ve made it possible for you to be like Jesus my son is .

 

[Mem]

a yeah my point about the transfiguration was that it says he was transfigured before them , it says they saw him in his glory , and it says his face shined as the sun that his countenance changed and also that his apparel became bright ….

“and was transfigured before them:

and his face did shine as the sun,

and his raiment was white as the light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭17:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered,

and his raiment was white and glistering.

And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem. But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:29-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s why I was saying my opinion is that’s Jesus glorofoed body there’s other reasons also but my posts get long

Given that Jesus is known as both the Son of Man and the Son of God, I think this is one instance where I think it's possible that we'll both see each other "on the other side" and say, "you were right" at the same time.

 

[PaulThomson]

it's pretty difficult to get around the fact that it's specifically Paul talking about himself, not an imaginary arbitrary person and that it's all written in present tense.

so, Paul is definitely not under the Law, and he is not unregenerate. the problem of interpretation is a problem of not believing what's clearly written, imo, because it doesn't fit with many people's preconception.

Or, Paul is using a figure of speech called prosopopaeia, where someone takes on the persona of someone who is now dead, speaking as they would have spoken.

 

[Mem]

Part of the message of Jesus being born in the flesh and blood like we are is the message from god “ I’ve been where you’ve been , of felt like you feel sometimes I’ve felt sorrow , I’ve endured pain , I’ve prayed to God , I’ve feared and reached for him on a crisis I’ve offered him supplications and tears, I’ve bled I’ve been just like you are …..and because of that I’ve made it possible for you to be like Jesus my son is .

No progeny could come from Adam without passing through Eve, and of course, Eve could have no progeny unless Adam gave her children. And similarly, Jesus came through the seed of woman, but that way, God seems to have, somehow, 'undone' Adam's influence, at least to some degree, even if it's just limited to His person only, just through His birth alone, let alone what the rest of His time on earth accomplishes for mankind. I imagine that Mary must've lived out the rest of her days in a sort of daze in wonderment of her Son.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No progeny could come from Adam without passing through Eve, and of course, Eve could have no progeny unless Adam gave her children. And similarly, Jesus came through the seed of woman, but that way, God seems to have, somehow, 'undone' Adam's influence, at least to some degree, even if it's just limited to His person only, just through His birth alone, let alone what the rest of His time on earth accomplishes for mankind. I imagine that Mary must've lived out the rest of her days in a sort of daze in wonderment of her Son.

good point and Well said .

and I would imagine so I find it interesting to look at the relationships we can glimpse that Jesus had with folks like Mary for instance mostly we don’t get to see that but in instances. His apostles we get to see a bit of there relationships with Jesus I like how John names himself “ the beloved disciple “ lol he sure knew Jesus loved him. But just noticing how Jesus treated people and had very human relationships with them

i think it’s really helpful to look into Jesus humanity that’s exhibited in the gospel during his time in the flesh and how he dealt with people , with temptation , with the little children ect

How often he went off to pray and how he treated sinners and how he treated self righteous folk who thought they weren’t ….it’s amazing what our god did to save us fools

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Given that Jesus is known as both the Son of Man and the Son of God, I think this is one instance where I think it's possible that we'll both see each other "on the other side" and say, "you were right" at the same time.

What a good day that will be even if I’m saying “oops I was wrong lol “ hopefully the lord will understand. And we’ll still meet up when we’re all home !

 

[Mem]

good point and Well said .

and I would imagine so I find it interesting to look at the relationships we can glimpse that Jesus had with folks like Mary for instance mostly we don’t get to see that but in instances. His apostles we get to see a bit of there relationships with Jesus I like how John names himself “ the beloved disciple “ lol he sure knew Jesus loved him. But just noticing how Jesus treated people and had very human relationships with them

i think it’s really helpful to look into Jesus humanity that’s exhibited in the gospel during his time in the flesh and how he dealt with people , with temptation , with the little children ect

How often he went off to pray and how he treated sinners and how he treated self righteous folk who thought they weren’t ….it’s amazing what our god did to save us fools

Wow, just thinking of that, how he comforted some to feel 'not so bad' and others he told 'you're not so good.' And this thought leaves me wondering how those holding stones meant for the woman caught in adultery heard Him say, "Let the one without sin throw the first stone,"... if they'd heard it like ... "Go, ahead... make my day...."

 

[posthuman]

Yeah you aren’t getting me lol tbat quote is about our resurrection not Jesus resurrection

ah, OK, i see why we haven't been meeting

talking about either is talking about both

Romans 6:4-5​

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be [in the likeness] of [His] resurrection,​

 

[Mem]

What a good day that will be even if I’m saying “oops I was wrong lol “ hopefully the lord will understand. And we’ll still meet up when we’re all home !

You got two reactions out of me from this comment. + =

 

[posthuman]

One means tested and one means tempted ? Based upon what brother just that it supports your opinion ?

based on His deity and the fact that the Greek word carries both meanings dependent on context.

He was tested, just like a sacrifice is examined by the priests to ensure it is pure.

we are tested and fail.

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

for example,
tested, in both cases here.

God cannot be tempted.

because he went through what we do the same exact thing he’s able to strengthen us so we too can overcome temptation

because He was likewise tested and because it is His strength in our weekness, by His propitiation, and because all judgement is His, we can overcome by faith

the scriptures day the victory, that which defines we who overcome, is faith in Him, not in willpower or gumption or even in His ability to remove the evil desire from our heart that James 100% defines as the process of temptation.

He has no evil desire: He became man not by taking on sin in His heart, but flesh - - perfect, incorruptible flesh, in which there is no guile - - therefore He cannot be tempted. He is God. temptation contradicts His deity.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Wow, just thinking of that, how he comforted some to feel 'not so bad' and others he told 'you're not so good.' And this thought leaves me wondering how those holding stones meant for the woman caught in adultery heard Him say, "Let the one without sin throw the first stone,"... if they'd heard it like ... "Go, ahead... make my day...."

Amen and compared to the mosaic law it’s a 180.

Pretty amazing way to save someone’s life had Jesus said “ yes obey Moses law “ she was dead. Instead he preached forgivness because we’ve all sinned too. And are also condemned by the same law.

“ be merciful and you will receive mercy , judge not lest ye be judged , condemn not and you won’t be condemned …..with the same measure you use it will be measured to you .

there’s an element to the gospel that teaches reforming sinners to relate to other sinners and it’s meant to inspire mercy in them towards one another and makes a promise of mercy towards us

“Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

( he tells a kingdom parable about how forgivness works then says )
… So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:21-22, 35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i suppose casting stones works the same way

 

[Mem]

based on His deity and the fact that the Greek word carries both meanings dependent on context.

He was tested, just like a sacrifice is examined by the priests to ensure it is pure.

we are tested and fail.




for example,
tested, in both cases here.

God cannot be tempted.




because He was likewise tested and because it is His strength in our weekness, by His propitiation, and because all judgement is His, we can overcome by faith

the scriptures day the victory, that which defines we who overcome, is faith in Him, not in willpower or gumption or even in His ability to remove the evil desire from our heart that James 100% defines as the process of temptation.

He has no evil desire: He became man not by taking on sin in His heart, but flesh - - perfect, incorruptible flesh, in which there is no guile - - therefore He cannot be tempted. He is God. temptation contradicts His deity.

That ambiguousness in the English language lends itself to being confused. For example, I can either be confused, or I can confuse, but Jesus cannot be confused, even if anyone tried to confuse him. Is this a good example of what's happening here?

 

[Mem]

That ambiguousness in the English language lends itself to being confused. For example, I can either be confused, or I can confuse, but Jesus cannot be confused, even if anyone tried to confuse him. Is this a good example of what's happening here?

...I'm afraid I might've confused my question...