Two Natures???

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jesus' body without corruption probably made Him stronger and faster than those around Him. Had He not died young, this would have lasted as long as He lived.

did you notice here Paul’s talking about Jesus resurrection and how David died and his body decayed but Jesus body didn’t decay

“And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

but he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13:32-37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But here in this case place he’s not talking about it like that at all it’s being used in a totally different way

if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
did you notice here Paul’s talking about Jesus resurrection and how David died and his body decayed but Jesus body didn’t decay

“And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

but he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13:32-37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But here in this case place he’s not talking about it like that at all it’s being used in a totally different way

if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Did Jesus saw corruption before He died?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pilgrimshope
Did Jesus saw corruption before He died?

No he was born holy , in the flesh and blood , like children are , lived holy even when touched by mankind’s weaknesses in temptation he still did not sin even when they led him to the cross in his suffering and death he sinned not . Jesus is holy . We are corrupt because when we are tempted we yield to serve sin rather than God …..Jesus never did that
 
No he was born holy , in the flesh and blood , like children are , lived holy even when touched by mankind’s weaknesses in temptation he still did not sin even when they led him to the cross in his suffering and death he sinned not . Jesus is holy . We are corrupt because when we are tempted we yield to serve sin rather than God …..Jesus never did that
He was tempted in everyway as we are, yet He sinned not. Was He not then just as much the heavenly man as He is as revealed in the transfiguration?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pilgrimshope
He was tempted in everyway as we are, yet He sinned not. Was He not then just as much the heavenly man as He is as revealed in the transfiguration?

Jesus ? Yeah of course he the word of God came from heaven into the world

became flesh in Mary’s womb

and then afterwards after he accomplished his work in the gospel on earth sacrificing his flesh and blood for us as an atonement

Then he returned to heaven and to the glory of the father which he began with

So he came from heaven

“For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:33, 35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

lived and died as a man then he returned to his eternal glory of God

“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“The first man is of the earth, earthy:

the second man is the Lord from heaven.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;

the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What he’s saying is just like we all have born the image of Adam the natural man the earthy man we also are going to bear the image of the heavenly man the lord from heaven

“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

gods children on earth temporarily need a different body than his children in heaven and eternity we’ll need bodies tbat last and don’t give out with disease and injury and time
 
And yet, you're claining that Christ's flesh came from Adam through Mary, therefore, his flesh was corrupt.
Sin is passed down through the man, just as it came into the world through the first man (Adam). Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the virgin Mary, therefore the last Adam was born without sin.
 
And yet, you're claining that Christ's flesh came from Adam through Mary, therefore, his flesh was corrupt.
….yeah I’m claiming Jesus was born of Mary who was flesh and blood

“but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

pretty basic . Either Jesus was born of Mary like it says or he wasn’t . His flesh didint just magically appear he was born a man like you were from your mothers womb . Jesus also was born of his mothers womb

you are the one stretching corruption to Jesus because he was born in the flesh not me

“And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus Took part of the flesh and blood like we do . Our corruption is because we sin not because we are born to commit sin leads to death….
 
Sin is passed down through the man, just as it came into the world through the first man (Adam). Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the virgin Mary, therefore the last Adam was born without sin.

sin isn’t inherent it’s personal

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
sin isn’t inherent it’s personal

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pilgrimshope
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Right look at the part you didint highlight because they all sinned

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;


and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭

in other words we don’t die because Adam sinned we die because we sin.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son:

the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him,

and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What Adam did resulted in this

“And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

So he drove the man out, and he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:22, 24‬ ‭

You can see what Paul’s saying right ? And also can see it’s sayong each person will be held to account for thier own sins not the sins of rhier ancestors or descendants but thier own sins the souls own sins bring death

It’s when we sin against god that we are removed from the book of life we aren’t born blotted out because of Adam

“But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.” The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:32-33‬ ‭NIV‬‬

We aren’t added into his book of life but we can individually be blotted out of it

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Children are not born evil or rejected by god we become that way by serving sin adam caused us to be caught between good and evil so we now have to choose life Adams transgression cause d this

“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so our own plight turned here forced to choose between good and evil that now became man’s conflicted between good and evil nature

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

As time passed everyone sinned and so everyone was condemned to death . Then later Jesus came forth bearing the flesh and blood of mankind choosing the good when tempted choosing the good when suffering choosing the good when dying choosing the good and so he never sinned which was what was needed for an intercession to take this away

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He took it away like this

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭

the perfect man of God who never sinned and was never blotted out of the book , suffered for and died for those who all had sinned and fallen under the jidgement of death for sin

sin is not what we are born into it’s what we choose to serve through temptations

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

1 whether of sin unto death,

2 or of obedience unto righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a man like Noah for instance

“These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He was a descendant of Adam so was Enoch

“and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So was job

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭

why aren’t they all condemned bieng adams descendants ? Why aren’t they all capped hopeless born to sin sinners who have no choice of adams sin is credited to them ?

arachnids person has to give account for what they have done. Ot what anyone else has done even Adam we won’t have to answer for his transgression but our own

“For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

adam has to answer for his deeds we have to answer for our own not anyone else’s

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Jesus ? Yeah of course he the word of God came from heaven into the world

became flesh in Mary’s womb

and then afterwards after he accomplished his work in the gospel on earth sacrificing his flesh and blood for us as an atonement

Then he returned to heaven and to the glory of the father which he began with

So he came from heaven

“For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:33, 35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

lived and died as a man then he returned to his eternal glory of God

“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“The first man is of the earth, earthy:

the second man is the Lord from heaven.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;

the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What he’s saying is just like we all have born the image of Adam the natural man the earthy man we also are going to bear the image of the heavenly man the lord from heaven

“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

gods children on earth temporarily need a different body than his children in heaven and eternity we’ll need bodies tbat last and don’t give out with disease and injury and time

As I consider breaking of the five loaves, where there were 12 baskets left over, and the seven loaves which yielded 7 baskets left over, I can't help but wonder if this has any relevance in the understanding of Jesus' body. A quick search retrieved one opinion of the meaning, What is the meaning of the 12 and 7 baskets...?

Just some 'food' for thought. :giggle:
 
did you notice here Paul’s talking about Jesus resurrection and how David died and his body decayed but Jesus body didn’t decay

“And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

but he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13:32-37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But here in this case place he’s not talking about it like that at all it’s being used in a totally different way

if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i don't believe His body ever decayed at all, that decay in flesh is a result of sin, not part of the original creation - - as God said, dying-you-shall-die, a process

which goes to what @John146 has been saying, and the virgin birth - - all flesh decays, and science has been looking for the reason why for as long as they can. it is thought that the mortagenic factor, which causes inevitable death of all cells, is passed through the male gamete.

hence He could have no DNA from Joseph, who had inherited it from Adam
 
….yeah I’m claiming Jesus was born of Mary who was flesh and blood

“but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

pretty basic . Either Jesus was born of Mary like it says or he wasn’t . His flesh didint just magically appear he was born a man like you were from your mothers womb . Jesus also was born of his mothers womb

you are the one stretching corruption to Jesus because he was born in the flesh not me

“And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus Took part of the flesh and blood like we do . Our corruption is because we sin not because we are born to commit sin leads to death….

Who prepared the body of Jesus? Mary or God?

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
 
….yeah I’m claiming Jesus was born of Mary who was flesh and blood

“but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

pretty basic . Either Jesus was born of Mary like it says or he wasn’t . His flesh didint just magically appear he was born a man like you were from your mothers womb . Jesus also was born of his mothers womb

you are the one stretching corruption to Jesus because he was born in the flesh not me

“And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus Took part of the flesh and blood like we do . Our corruption is because we sin not because we are born to commit sin leads to death….

Again, why the virgin birth?
 
….yeah I’m claiming Jesus was born of Mary who was flesh and blood

“but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

pretty basic . Either Jesus was born of Mary like it says or he wasn’t . His flesh didint just magically appear he was born a man like you were from your mothers womb . Jesus also was born of his mothers womb

you are the one stretching corruption to Jesus because he was born in the flesh not me

“And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus Took part of the flesh and blood like we do . Our corruption is because we sin not because we are born to commit sin leads to death….

The word "begotten" is so important. Jesus is God's only begotten Son. That means his physical came from God by God's seed.

First mention...
Genesis 5:4 4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
 
i don't believe His body ever decayed at all, that decay in flesh is a result of sin, not part of the original creation - - as God said, dying-you-shall-die, a process

which goes to what @John146 has been saying, and the virgin birth - - all flesh decays, and science has been looking for the reason why for as long as they can. it is thought that the mortagenic factor, which causes inevitable death of all cells, is passed through the male gamete.

hence He could have no DNA from Joseph, who had inherited it from Adam

I’ve never said Jesus had joesphs dna or that he had a biological father …. Never argued that Jesus was born of a virgin …..making points to me for points that I’ve never tried to make

“@i don't believe His body ever decayed at all, “

yeah I don’t either “

“that decay in flesh is a result of sin, not part of the original creation”

are you saying you do believe this part or don’t ? That’s what I believe .

Jesus didn’t sin that’s why his flesh didn’t decay . And why he didn’t stay dead and decay and return to dust

“For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the difference in Jesus flesh and ours that’s my belief of why he “ didn’t decay “ we do he didn’t .

“for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬


flesh decays because we die , we die because sin (the wages of sin is death )
Jesus wasn’t condemned by this like the rest of us are because he didn’t sin we did that’s the difference in his flesh and ours they were the same flesh and blood tbat he was born into from Mary’s physical body because god declared it

The virgin birth ? How does asking why Jesus was born of a virgin mean that his flesh and blood wasn’t made of Mary’s flesh and blood ? Again I have never made an argument tbat Josephs dna is n jesus there’s nothing in the Bible to make that claim. He had no biological father .

Mary was a human woman a virgin chosen by god to give birth to his son , who came in the flesh and blood of mankind to redeem us .



What’s the question about him being born of a virgin have to do with anything ? His flesh and blood still came from his physical mother … all of our bodies do .

I’ve never claimed Jesus had an earthly biological father lol I’ve always said his flesh and blood was made of Mary’s like all human babies are made of thier mothers body that they are born from

Of course Jesus was born of a virgin and of course he was made of flesh and blood and of course that’s where his physical body came from …..

“but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Why was he born of a virgin ?

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭7:14-15‬ ‭

“And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:28, 30-33, 35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

At what point are we supposed to say “ Jesus flesh and blood didn’t physically come from his mother? And then make that argument lol to support johns claim that blood is corrupt not flesh

Just want to point out all this long discussion about Jesus virgin birth is an attempt to get past this verse and claim flesh rises but not with blood and enters the kingdom but not blood though and definately not a spiritual body

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?…. it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, ( dies )

and there is a spiritual body.”( is raised )
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35, 44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m gonna stick with the idea that Jesus was made from Mary’s flesh and blood like all humans are . It doesn’t bother me because I don’t have the opinion we’re born wrong and can’t choose good
 
Again, why the virgin birth?
What’s the point in asking then ignoring and asking again ?

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

tell Me what your point is ? How does it mean Jesus wasn’t born of Mary’s womb ? Or his flesh didn’t come from his mother like all flesh does ?