Two Natures???

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ResidentAlien said:
You asked if the Christian has two natures. The answer is no; the sinful man is dead and buried. Unless you dredge it up from the grave, as many believes often do (See quote from Galatians 2 above).
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I tend to agree with your position. According to Rom 6:6, Our 'old man', all that we are in Adam, was crucified with Christ. This means that we do not have a 'sinful nature'. Temptation to sin is external. The 'flesh' is not a sinful nature as such but our human nature under the control of sin.
The problem with the two nature idea is that it makes the individual a spectator and not the initiator of sin or obedience.
Also, the 'sinful nature' idea tends to make sin to be almost a physical 'thing' inside me, when sin is an attitude of self pleasing.
 
posthuman said:
yes it does.

Job 12:7-10​
But now ask the beasts, and they will teach you; And the birds of the air, and they will tell you; Or speak to the earth, and it will teach you; And the fish of the sea will explain to you. Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this, In whose hand [is] the life of every living thing, And the breath of all mankind?​

Psalms 104:27-28​
These all wait for You, That You may give [them] their food in due season. [What] You give them they gather in; You open Your hand, they are filled with good.​
​
and fittingly, it also says men do not.
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Interesting how my cat knows God better than I or the birds I feed speak for him better than myself.
Yet they rely on us to feed them and take care of the encironment they live in and even so they know him I do not.

The meekness of animals the way they do not sinand the innocence they carry there is much to be learned from them
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
If you're saying that a regenerated man doesn't have a natural nature, I disagree. A spititual man is a one who in a natural body walks after the spirit of God.
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Eh? I said no such thing. The regenerated man is not unregenerated. He is called a spiritual man in Scripture.

The unregenerated are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God. Two natures. That is the topic.
 
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Aussie52 said:
The problem with the two nature idea is that it makes the individual a spectator and not the initiator of sin or obedience.
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you mean exactly like Scripture says?

Romans 7:18-20​
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but [how] to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will [to do,] I do not do; but the evil I will not [to do,] that I practice. Now if I do what I will not [to do,] it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.​
​
why is that a problem?
that's salvation through the cross, not of works but by grace.
 
posthuman said:
you mean exactly like Scripture says?

Romans 7:18-20​
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but [how] to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will [to do,] I do not do; but the evil I will not [to do,] that I practice. Now if I do what I will not [to do,] it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.​
​
why is that a problem?
that's salvation through the cross, not of works but by grace.
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because you see in it license to sin?

i suggest clean your glasses ;)
 
Blain said:
I am not sure it is stupid in fact we are to use scripture for this very thing the issue is not many scriptures speak on this matter, of course I could be wrong but how many verses can we use to prove anything about two natures?
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Duh. Wasn’t the point. I realize the importance of scripture, dad. The OP was on the edge of a demanding voice, not really asking for insight.
 
Burn1986 said:
Duh. Wasn’t the point. I realize the importance of scripture, dad. The OP was on the edge of a demanding voice, not really asking for insight.
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Hm... Didn't appear that way to me but that is just me if it seemed that way to you then your free to your own perspective but there is no need to get snarky
 
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Aussie52 said:
Does the Christian have two natures, one sinful and the other divine?
Or does the Christian have one nature, the 'new creation'?
Your thoughts with appropriate Scripture.
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Short answer is a christian only have one nature a divine nature. Referring to a mature Christian not a juvenile one.
 
Scripture also doesn't say that animals know God, wait for Him,
yes it does.

Job 12:7-10
But now ask the beasts, and they will teach you; And the birds of the air, and they will tell you; Or speak to the earth, and it will teach you; And the fish of the sea will explain to you. Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this, In whose hand [is] the life of every living thing, And the breath of all mankind?

Psalms 104:27-28
These all wait for You, That You may give [them] their food in due season. [What] You give them they gather in; You open Your hand, they are filled with good.
and fittingly, it also says men do not.


What that person said 👆
Also
People are typed as animals all through Scripture
Studying all that taught me a lot about myself and others
That Psalm's one of me favourites, btw, cheers

And if anyone's interested
Use the 39th, 40th & 41st chapters of Job as a springboard, for example the ostrich in job 39 just go to lamentations 4 where it mentions ostriches again you'll see what's going on
 
Aussie52 said:
Does the Christian have two natures, one sinful and the other divine?
Or does the Christian have one nature, the 'new creation'?
Your thoughts with appropriate Scripture.
Click to expand...
What conclusions have you already reached before starting the thread? Which verses were you hung up on?
 
Until the resurrection, the new creation is the spiritual man in the flesh.

The old man is the fleshy-man that is dead spiritually. He will not overpower survival instincts etc. that will cause a man to sin without some intervention from God.

When somebody is saved the spirit is quickened, but the flesh doesn't change; however, it is considered "dead" because it is not the one in full control anymore.

In the literal sense, your fleshy nature is alive until it literally dies and is literally in the grave. That's why Paul says to "mortify" what belongs to your earthly nature; it's an ongoing thing until it is literally dead.
 
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How deep does the reader want to go on all this?
Back in Genesis, we will recall
Before Adam is paired with Eve it says
All the creatures were presented to the man
But not a suitable companion was found for him
These are key to true human identity....
 
posthuman said:
yes it does.

Job 12:7-10​
But now ask the beasts, and they will teach you; And the birds of the air, and they will tell you; Or speak to the earth, and it will teach you; And the fish of the sea will explain to you. Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this, In whose hand [is] the life of every living thing, And the breath of all mankind?​

Psalms 104:27-28​
These all wait for You, That You may give [them] their food in due season. [What] You give them they gather in; You open Your hand, they are filled with good.​
​
and fittingly, it also says men do not.
Click to expand...

Well, the passage says the beasts will teach you, the birds of the air will tell you, the earth will teach you and the fish of the sea will explain to you, but NOT that they know the Lord and wait for Him. I think the NT corollary might be Romans 1:20, which says that creation manifests God's power and nature, so humans have no excuse for not knowing God and waiting for Him. I will connect those dots in my margin notes. Thanks!
 
I don't believe so , I believe humans r sinners through and through , we r flesh , God is pure and is a Spirit . The only good in us comes from God's Holy Spirit , working in and through us to do His Will .
 
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