Trump: climate change "scientifically irrefutable"
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3
3angelsmsg
Guest
Trump is playing his role very well. This is what you call hegelian dialectic. The political world create two extremes one to the left that want to enforce extreme measures to combat climate change. While the other extreme make climate change totally irrelevant or that there are no bases for it. And now people is faced between the two extreme and none makes sense. So they created a third option that people will accept to create the actual outcome they wanted in the beginning.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
it's my understanding that they changed the signs in Glacier National Park...beautiful beautiful place...because they had said the glaciers would be gone by 2020
nope
still there
Yes, it's very possible that I misunderstood what you were saying, so thank you for addressing that.
Let's see if we can come to a place where we do understand each other.
What do you think it's the most likely explanation for the change in Trump's words?
You may be interested in this linkit's my understanding that they changed the signs in Glacier National Park...beautiful beautiful place...because they had said the glaciers would be gone by 2020
nope
still there
https://www.usgs.gov/centers/norock...ce_center_objects=0#qt-science_center_objects
I didn't read all of it, but I think some glaciers have disappeared and others are getting smaller.
Honestly it's complete speculation, and I have no clue why he changed his mind ultimately, but logically I think it has to do with what information you have. The more info you have the more informed your decision will be. But none of this was the point I was making though. Your comment was worded in a way that seemed to suggest that "significant change in the science regarding climate change", was a requirement for a change of mind. I disagree and my only point was that "significant change in the science regarding climate change" is not necessary for a mind change, old information you never heard then is brought to your attention could easily cause someone to change their minds. That's really it, I wasn't trying to say why he changed his mind, only that the promise you set up in the question suggesting "significant change in the science regarding climate change", was needed for a legitimate mind change was a scarecrow argument really. Simple sitting down with someone and hearing their point of view and why they believe what they believe can change minds too. Perspective. But honestly I think Trump was in the spotlight for so long and the idea of saving the planet sound good to the fleshly ear, but once he started learning other viewpoints and why people hold them. That's how he may have changed his mind. That's how I see it.Yes, it's very possible that I misunderstood what you were saying, so thank you for addressing that.
Let's see if we can come to a place where we do understand each other.
What do you think it's the most likely explanation for the change in Trump's words?
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
Jakobshavn Glacier in Greenland is apparently growing...is the biggest in Greenland....
The Jakobshavn glacier around 2012 was retreating about 1.8 miles and thinning nearly 130 feet annually. But it started growing again at about the same rate in the past two years, according to a study in Monday’s Nature Geoscience. Study authors and outside scientists think this is temporary.
but who knows
however, it is a particularly cold and hard winter where winter occurs...like the park...and glaciers are formed when the snowfall of any given year does not all melt...here comes the glacier
and the reverse happens when melt in the spring goes longer than the snow that fell that winter...glacier shrinksthe sun, is currently in a solar cooling period, so that might have an effect I would think. cycles are 11 years. but since scientists cannot really predict the activity of the sun with regards to how much activity occurs...sunspots etc...educated guess seems to be the conclusion ....but this is interesting....
Scientists rule out imminent sun induced cooling of climate
your link is from 2017. all that's left is that pure little lake after the glacier is gone. supposed to be 25 active glaciers in that park today...meaning growing...they had previously thought there would be none left at all by 2020....as I posted
however, all glaciers are supposed to have receded since 1966
however, it is a particularly cold and hard winter where winter occurs...like the park...and glaciers are formed when the snowfall of any given year does not all melt...here comes the glacier
and the reverse happens when melt in the spring goes longer than the snow that fell that winter...glacier shrinksthere was a 'mini' ice age from about 1300 to 1870. some scientists state for we are in for another one and others say no...there will be a big warming instead
guess we'll see
prob more info than you bargained for
I hear what you're saying, and thank you for explaining.
The reason that I brought up the idea of a "significant change in the science regarding climate change" was that Trump had used the phrase "scientifically irrefutable".
So for me, it would take something significant to move me from "irrefutable" to a completely opposing position.
More information is always good!Jakobshavn Glacier in Greenland is apparently growing...is the biggest in Greenland....
The Jakobshavn glacier around 2012 was retreating about 1.8 miles and thinning nearly 130 feet annually. But it started growing again at about the same rate in the past two years, according to a study in Monday’s Nature Geoscience. Study authors and outside scientists think this is temporary.
but who knows
however, it is a particularly cold and hard winter where winter occurs...like the park...and glaciers are formed when the snowfall of any given year does not all melt...here comes the glacier
the sun, is currently in a solar cooling period, so that might have an effect I would think. cycles are 11 years. but since scientists cannot really predict the activity of the sun with regards to how much activity occurs...sunspots etc...educated guess seems to be the conclusion ....but this is interesting....
Scientists rule out imminent sun induced cooling of climate
your link is from 2017. all that's left is that pure little lake after the glacier is gone. supposed to be 25 active glaciers in that park today...meaning growing...they had previously thought there would be none left at all by 2020....as I posted
however, all glaciers are supposed to have receded since 1966
however, it is a particularly cold and hard winter where winter occurs...like the park...and glaciers are formed when the snowfall of any given year does not all melt...here comes the glacier
there was a 'mini' ice age from about 1300 to 1870. some scientists state for we are in for another one and others say no...there will be a big warming instead
guess we'll see
prob more info than you bargained for
I didn't know about the glacier in Greenland getting bigger, but I have heard that most climate change models predict that certain parts of the world will actually get cooler.
Most people have heard that the arctic ice cap is shrinking, but a lot of people haven't heard that the ice in Antarctica is actually growing. (However, the north is losing ice three times faster than the South is gaining it.)
I've read that it's similar to how a river flowing downhill will make eddies where the water actually flows uphill. So an overall warming Earth would also produce cold spots.
But all of these different pieces of information can lead to different conclusions, I think we both agree.
And that's kind of what led me to make the OP. I thought it was interesting that a person, a person currently in the spotlight regarding climate change, would say in 2009 that it was "irrefutable" and then just seven years later say that it was the "dumbest thing".
Why say either of those things when there's so much information that can lead to differing conclusions?
So, pondering my last question above, I see now that there is possibly a third option.
Trump's statements are not technically opposed.
The second quote is
“one of the dumbest statements I’ve ever heard in politics — in the history of politics as I know it.”
So not the dumbest thing ever, just the dumbest thing in politics.
So maybe he has always been convinced that climate change is happening and will bring about catastrophe, but he also knows that humans aren't going to do what it would take to reverse the process, if that's even possible. So it's not expedient, politically, to keep bringing it up.
If that's the case, then I would salute Trump's political "savvy-ness".
Trump's statements are not technically opposed.
The second quote is
“one of the dumbest statements I’ve ever heard in politics — in the history of politics as I know it.”
So not the dumbest thing ever, just the dumbest thing in politics.
So maybe he has always been convinced that climate change is happening and will bring about catastrophe, but he also knows that humans aren't going to do what it would take to reverse the process, if that's even possible. So it's not expedient, politically, to keep bringing it up.
If that's the case, then I would salute Trump's political "savvy-ness".
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
I think Trump may have rethought things when considering running for the Presidency
we all change our minds from time to time (it's healthy and indicates our leetle minds are still working haha) but if a person in office or famous in some way does so, all of a sudden it makes them suspect. I must therefore suspect myself even though I am not famous...outside my own house
but yeah, seems we pretty much do agree...such conflicting info develops a wait and see stance IMO
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
one of the dumbest statements in the history of politics ever haha
I like your neutrality here. you sound reasonable
too many folks jump on a bandwagon one way or another without really thinking things through. some things are clear but not everything is
If I had to bet, he decided he wanted the glory of presidency, that the best path to that was through the GOP, so he started saying things that would pander to conservative voters.
You think that's pretty funny @7seasrekeyed ?
He used to support Hillary Clinton over Giuliani :
https://time.com/3962799/donald-trump-hillary-clinton/
He used to support abortion :
https://qz.com/1623437/trump-shifted-from-pro-choice-to-pro-life-as-he-planned-a-presidential-run/
He used to be a registered liberal Democrat supporting legalization of drugs and taxes on the rich:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ich-donald-trump-was-once-a-liberals-liberal/
Just my opinion of course, but it sure looks to me like he's played conservatives, and an awful lot of them have fallen for it hook line and sinker.
It's the same game the GOP has been playing to buy the Bible Belt vote ever since Falwell. Dangle a carrot, and play up the 'us v them' story - y'all love that stuff.
He used to support Hillary Clinton over Giuliani :
https://time.com/3962799/donald-trump-hillary-clinton/
He used to support abortion :
https://qz.com/1623437/trump-shifted-from-pro-choice-to-pro-life-as-he-planned-a-presidential-run/
He used to be a registered liberal Democrat supporting legalization of drugs and taxes on the rich:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ich-donald-trump-was-once-a-liberals-liberal/
Just my opinion of course, but it sure looks to me like he's played conservatives, and an awful lot of them have fallen for it hook line and sinker.
It's the same game the GOP has been playing to buy the Bible Belt vote ever since Falwell. Dangle a carrot, and play up the 'us v them' story - y'all love that stuff.
Well to be the most pro life President in history, it is quite evident by his fruit of pro life policies, judges, executive commands, use of money, and open speeches all for ending planned Parenthood, Roe v Wade, and even called abortion murder. Also having a personal experience with a friends child who was seeking abortion but decided to keep the child, the child had a lasting impact on Trump's life that caused him to see the horrors of abortion.
Either way thank God he put so much effort into faking it....
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
no. I think you are funny going out of your way as usual to support democrats by negatively posting about Trump
people CAN change their mind you know and he is not hiding his past.
as it is, Democrats in office are currently doing so...and switching to the GOP. perhaps you are unaware?
Gov of WV for one and Jeff van Drew from the house for another...when GOP members switch though, (rarer) good to see them go since they are dead weight in the GOP
nobody is buying the Bible belt
do you agree with abortion? prob not. open borders? sanctuary cities?
whatever
there are also several Dem house members thinking of voting with the senate against witnesses
as far as Romney and a couple of others go...they could do the world a favor (if they were not so selfishly thinking of their own 'careers') and go the way of the donkey
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
right
that must be it
considering the entire fiasco of an impeachment process the nation had to suffer, who is dangling carrots?
Nancy, who actually knows better, had to keep up her (cough cough) popularity and control by entertaining the far far falling off the cliff socialist/communist side of the party so she arranged the fake broo ha ha
nobody buys it unless they are looking at agendas rather than actual truth
Schiff is a liar. we know he is lying when he opens his mouth and words come out
the big mistake they made was trying to REcreate the phone call Trump had with Zelensky. pathetic, but when you are desperate for power and more money and have no actual moral compass, I guess that is what you do
Have you believed the same all your life? Have you been a Christian all your life? Usually as people seek God their ideas start to change. Trump literally surrounded himself with Godly men and woman, has evidence of being evangelized, becoming a Christian was a late in life choice, and takes every opportunity to invite the American Pastors to his events, and by fruit alone has done more for religious freedom than atleast dating back to Ronald Reagan.
Oh yah he has flaws. But God used a Samson, a Jonah, a murderer like Paul, a adulterer like David, etc to bring about his will. When I need surgery to cut out the cancer, I want the best surgeon for the job. I have 2 options. 1 is best in practice but doesn't speak very good and often has a prideful attitude. 2 isnt the best but has great bedside manners. Who do you choose to cut the cancer out the country? In war sometimes it is the rough General that we need to get what is seen as impossible odds.
This is that time in history. We would of never reached this point is the church had remained God centered and stayed in all parts of politics, school, and government. We wouldn't need a Samson or Gideon. Both at first wasn't ideal but each in their own way did the exact will of God in a time when the Jews seemed to have no one to save them.
I think it's tragic that you see this in terms of worldly political parties instead of in terms of truth.