True Grace

[MessengerofTruth]

Rom_5:20 "Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, Grace did MUCH More Abound"

I hardly believe this is false; IF you wish just regular Grace, then even the
wicked receive that from God, As He, With Patient Longsuffering, Awaits For
them to accept HIS (MUCH More Abounding) Gracious Offer Of HIS SON (And
HIS ALL-Sufficient Sacrifice) For their salvation By His "Grace Through faith":

Mat_5:45 "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!

So by hypergrace I understand that to mean interpreting that where grace abounds sin does much more abound and applying that say that even if we continue to sin we will still be saved. Is that a correct interpretation and your interpretation? just trying to understand...

 

[pablocito]

Rom_5:20 "Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, Grace did MUCH More Abound"

I hardly believe this is false; IF you wish just regular Grace, then even the
wicked receive that from God, As He, With Patient Longsuffering, Awaits For
them to accept HIS (MUCH More Abounding) Gracious Offer Of HIS SON (And
HIS ALL-Sufficient Sacrifice) For their salvation By His "Grace Through faith":

Mat_5:45 "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!

God is perfect and whatever God doeth is perfect.
God does not talk about hyper love or hyper mercy.
God does not talk about hypo love or hypo mercy, etc. These are all man-made terms.

Nothing shall be added to the bible and nothing shall be taken away from the bible. Not one tittle.
If you talk about hypergrace then you would have to define that word and also tell the difference in meaning between hypergrace and grace. (I hope you can define it for me.)

There are few prefixes in the bible for example false or feigned.
Feigned faith (fake faith) means the opposite of true faith.

In God's eyes there is only 2 sides of the fence good or evil. True or lie. Men have created scores of synonyms to give words a different shade of meaning. This is not of God.

God's use of superlatives is usually the word "All".
Example - To love God with all your heart, soul and mind. God hates middle of the road - for example Jesus prefers if you are hot or cold but not in-between.

Man's creativeness (imagination) is not of God. If God does not say it, then it should not be said.

God does not use the word trinity in the bible because he does not want us to use it. That word has caused divisions and confusion in the Christian community for centuries. It is the work of the Devil.

What does trinity mean?? It means one thing to the Jehovah Witness's , another thing to the Mormons, and other things to other so-called Christian groups.

Please define hypergrace sufficiently so that each person will be on the same page, and tell how the word applies to believers.

 

[pablocito]

I hardly believe this is false; IF you wish just regular Grace, then even the
wicked receive that from God,

Again there is nothing such as regular grace, often called common grace. There is only grace. And God's grace regardless of the situation is always sufficient for all of us.

Saving grace is not given to the wicked. They cannot not use it, as their face is turned away from God and likewise God's face is turned away from them.

1Pe_3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

As a side note, man's made-up term called freewill is not in the bible. The bible never uses the term freewill except with regards to freewill offerings like your tithes and offerings.

Never and again I say never make up terms that you say the concepts are in the bible. If my name was in the book of life from the foundation of the earth, then God's words in the bible for us today was also before the foundation of the earth.

And because God is perfect we should never try to outdo him or try to be better than him with our so-called ingenious wisdom. That type of wisdom is foolishness to God.

God's words are life and eternal.

Our words are nothingness. (And really is only adding to the bible)

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I believe that Christians should not be afraid to address any topic that is fundamental to their belief

I dont know who is afraid to talk about grace.

We do not protect our children from the devil by locking them away in a closet and not allowing them to go outside.

Its a way, not a good one. I dont know anyone who is doing this, but they should stop.

Grace, the means by which we are saved should not be allowed to remain a mystery.

I dont see that it has been.

It should not be allowed to be morphed into something that will drown new Christians into the devils camp,

I dont know what this means.

when we do not explain it properly to believers.

I dont know anyone who is doing this, not in any church that i know of anyway.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Again there is nothing such as regular grace, often called common grace.

So how do you explain the words of Christ in this passage without "common grace"? That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just (righteous) and on the unjust (unrighteous). (Mt 5:45)

So pablocito, you want to talk about grace, but do not even understand the basics of grace. And you also have too many misunderstanding about this subject, which we will not get into.

 

[pablocito]

So how do you explain the words of Christ in this passage without "common grace"? That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just (righteous) and on the unjust (unrighteous). (Mt 5:45)

So pablocito, you want to talk about grace, but do not even understand the basics of grace. And you also have too many misunderstanding about this subject, which we will not get into.

So be it if you do not want to discuss it.

 

[pablocito]

I dont know who is afraid to talk about grace.

Does it mean that you know all 9 billion people in the world. In fact I have had very experienced bible teachers ask me as to my understanding of grace, because they were not sure about it. In fact that was a few years ago and I myself was not too sure at that time.

In addition this site has requested that it's members should not discuss hyper grace for whatever reasons they deemed necessary.



pablocito said:

Grace, the means by which we are saved should not be allowed to remain a mystery.

I dont see that it has been.

I only said this in response to the post that no discussions of hypergrace was allowed on this site.
Also it is a common fact that there are scores of different definitions of salvation (of which grace is the foundation) by numerous peoples and denominations.


pablocito said:

It should not be allowed to be morphed into something that will drown new Christians into the devils camp,

I dont know what this means.

To be honest you seem to be somewhat naive.
Morph means to turn into something ugly and wrong
We have hundred's of Christian denominations fighting against each other because they each want to be the voice of Truth based upon their own personal or other interpretation of the bibles fundamental truths.

I am going to end here. I myself was a bit naive to think that we could have honest, non-combatant discussions, without finger pointing and unwarranted demeaning accusations.
But based on your reply and Nehemiah6, I guess I am wrong.

Thus this site's request asking us to refrain from discussing hypergrace etc, I will comply with, without reservation, as I guess we are really in the last days where everyone will be living by the sword and will be seeking to forward their own agenda, even if it means going up in arms against one another without any cause, rhyme or reason.

Rev_13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

You are really not at fault because God is sovereign and you can only do what God is leading you to do. (Pilate told Jesus he had the power to set him free, but Jesus told Pilate he had no power at all, except what God gave to him) Pilate did not set Jesus free, because God is sovereign.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Does it mean that you know all 9 billion people in the world.

I just thought that since you made an emphatic statement, that you may clarify as to who you know directly that is doing being afraid to talk about grace.
I personally have a strong understanding of Grace, i learned it from not only my own personal studies, but from mamy Bible teachers.

To be honest you seem to be somewhat naive.
Morph

I know what "morph" means. Its the way the sentence is phrased, that i dont understand.

personal or other interpretation of the bibles fundamental truths.

I dont believe in personal interpretation of the Bible. It says what it says, words have meanings and context has meaning. There is nothimg to interpret.

Thus this site's request asking us to refrain from discussing hypergrace

Hyper grace is a chameleon term. It means what ever kind of thing someone wants to impose upon it. I dont use the term, nor do i use common grace. There is one Grace.

based on your reply and Nehemiah6, I guess I am wrong.

Thats an unfair judgement. Im simply asking you to clarify and qualify your statements. I have no idea about any supposed wrongness.

 

[pablocito]

I just thought that since you made an emphatic statement, that you may clarify as to who you know directly that is doing being afraid to talk about grace.
I personally have a strong understanding of Grace, i learned it from not only my own personal studies, but from mamy Bible teachers.

I know what "morph" means. Its the way the sentence is phrased, that i dont understand.


I dont believe in personal interpretation of the Bible. It says what it says, words have meanings and context has meaning. There is nothimg to interpret.


Hyper grace is a chameleon term. It means what ever kind of thing someone wants to impose upon it. I dont use the term, nor do i use common grace. There is one Grace.

Thats an unfair judgement. Im simply asking you to clarify and qualify your statements. I have no idea about any supposed wrongness.

OK, Let's take this step by step, since you are making yourself out to be a reasonable person.
First off, I have not a clue what you believe about grace.
What is grace ?
Explain it so that even a young child can understand you especially since you said the following:

I personally have a strong understanding of Grace, i learned it from not only my own personal studies, but from mamy Bible teachers.

I will await your reply.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

OK, Let's take this step by step, since you are making yourself out to be a reasonable person.
First off, I have not a clue what you believe about grace.
What is grace ?
Explain it so that even a young child can understand you especially since you said the following:



I will await your reply.

God Himself condescending from on high to not only live with us (and in us) also as one of us ;sacrificing Himself on our behalf to pay our sin debt. Purchasing us to Himself that we may live with Him and in Him forever.
Thats in my own words as simplified as i can make it.
But i asked you questions so a bit of quid pro quo.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I believe that Christians should not be afraid to address any topic that is fundamental to their belief, albeit false versions of that belief have entered into mainstream Christianity, namely hypergrace.

We do not protect our children from the devil by locking them away in a closet and not allowing them to go outside.

Grace, the means by which we are saved should not be allowed to remain a mystery. It should not be allowed to be morphed into something that will drown new Christians into the devils camp, through ignorance and this is what will happen when we do not explain it properly to believers.

true grace

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

false grace hypergrace

“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the difference is one creates a liscense to keep sinning freely , the other is teaching believers repentance and righteousness while welcoming them

Gods grace is the gospel Jesus doesn’t tell People “ it’s okay to sin now I’m dying for your sins don’t worry about anything “

He tells people “ your sins are forgiven and I don’t condemn you now go and repent , come and follow me learn from me take my yoke upon you believe in me and be saved “

Some try to teach works as of grace has no place , some try to teach grace as of works have no place

Gods grace teaches us what to stop doing and what to do we learn it here

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The gospel is where we learn about repentance and righteousness but we’re accepted by grace up front and then embraced and taught because we believe in the savior

There’s no other way but to go to Jesus in the gospel that’s where grace teaches us about repentance and eternal life in righteousness without condemning us to death like the law

 

[pablocito]

God Himself condescending from on high to not only live with us (and in us) also as one of us ;sacrificing Himself on our behalf to pay our sin debt. Purchasing us to Himself that we may live with Him and in Him forever.
Thats in my own words as simplified as i can make it.
But i asked you questions so a bit of quid pro quo.

OK, I will accept your definition of grace as each person has to know it for him/herself.

Now to the hard part which the Apostle Paul speaks about.

What did God mean when Paul asked him to remove a thorn from his flesh, 3 times and God told him no. God told him that His grace was sufficient for Paul.

 

[pablocito]

So by hypergrace I understand that to mean interpreting that where grace abounds sin does much more abound and applying that say that even if we continue to sin we will still be saved. Is that a correct interpretation and your interpretation? just trying to understand...

If we follow man's logic we get into a lot of trouble. Yes, it leads to a nice convenient and very acceptable end for us, but outside of the kingdom of God. And when taught to beginners in Christ, they become irredeemable as those things become their foundation from some false teacher.

This was the reason in Hosea 4:6 God said he would forget Israel's children.

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.


If we move away from Paul's foundation, or Moses foundation or Peter's foundation because we are in a modern world and we trick ourselves into believing that we have to upgrade the bible to come in line with this modern era then it means that we are in the days of Noah where God said:

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

When God's spirit stop striving with man, then man is dead, dead, dead. But God decided to reduce the years of man on this earth to 120 instead of the 500 to 900 years that man used to live. If man had continued to live to be 900 years old, the earth would become hell on earth.

But even in reducing man's lifespan, God determined that man was still too wicked and had to be destroyed. If you are wicked at 100 years, can you imagine living 800 more years with that wickedness.

That wickedness would multiply tremendously to the point of self-extinction. But God could not allow that to happen as the earth was going to be filled with God's seed (sons of God) and thus God has to put some restraint on man's wickedness by reducing his lifespan years.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

If we follow man's logic we get into a lot of trouble.

Correct, ALWAYS ask "What Saith The Scriptures?" - The Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

So by hypergrace I understand that to mean interpreting that where grace abounds sin does much more abound and applying that say that even if we continue to sin we will still be saved. Is that a correct interpretation and your interpretation? just trying to understand...

Precious friend, yes this is correct - look at the "carnal (divided/sinning) Corinthian" saints, and Judgment of The Body Of Christ. What Saith The Scriptures?:

1Co 5:5 "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of
the flesh, that the spirit may be Saved In The Day of The LORD Jesus."

[man's logic says: "NO, not true" (lots of trouble)], But,

God Teaches, Under Grace And Judgment (1Co 3:8-15):​

v15: "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer
loss: but he himself Shall Be SAVED; yet so as by fire."

So, Yes, the saved "can keep sinning" but why would we, when we love God, and
should be thankful for ETERNAL Life, and "present our bodies a living sacrifice" = cooperating With Him, As He "Conforms us to the Image Of His SON" Amen?

Thus, NOT cooperating can only bring consequences in this life (death Sooner?),
and Also "loss of reward" (reigning with Christ?) in the next (ETERNAL) Life,
For God's (disobedient) "children of Light," Correct?

NO, Grace is NOT "a license to sin" But, IS "a license to SERVE!!" Amen?
-------------------
Precious friends:

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!

 

[pablocito]

Correct, ALWAYS ask "What Saith The Scriptures?" - The Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

Precious friend, yes this is correct - look at the "carnal (divided/sinning) Corinthian" saints, and Judgment of The Body Of Christ. What Saith The Scriptures?:

1Co 5:5 "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of
the flesh, that the spirit may be Saved In The Day of The LORD Jesus."

[man's logic says: "NO, not true" (lots of trouble)], But,

God Teaches, Under Grace And Judgment (1Co 3:8-15):​

v15: "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer
loss: but he himself Shall Be SAVED; yet so as by fire."

So, Yes, the saved "can keep sinning" but why would we, when we love God, and
should be thankful for ETERNAL Life, and "present our bodies a living sacrifice" = cooperating With Him, As He "Conforms us to the Image Of His SON" Amen?

Thus, NOT cooperating can only bring consequences in this life (death Sooner?),
and Also "loss of reward" (reigning with Christ?) in the next (ETERNAL) Life,
For God's (disobedient) "children of Light," Correct?

NO, Grace is NOT "a license to sin" But, IS "a license to SERVE!!" Amen?
-------------------
Precious friends:

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!

I cannot intervene into your relationship with God.

Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
Luke 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Again Jesus said this to Peter.

John 21:21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
John 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

In the above Jesus was telling Peter to mind his own business, when Peter inquired about John.

I will only state here that I believe that the christian life is a progressive movement towards becoming like Jesus Christ, and continuous sinning without any power to overcome that sin is not indicative of a born again child of God.
Sanctification is key. Sanctification means purity and holiness. Not just in thinking but in practice where God's grace is sufficient to bring you to this goal.

Lastly this is an individual thing and not a congregational thing as per the 1st Century church. Thus God will have to be speaking to you personally and directing you personally though his word and by his Spirit, and not through some other person such as a pastor or a priest.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I cannot intervene into your relationship with God.

Correct, God Himself Established it ETERNALLY Onto me. Amen!

 

[Nehemiah6]

What is grace ?

Why are you going on an on with "What is grace?" That was already settled earlier in this thread. So do you even understand what is grace?

 

[Locoponydirtman]

OK, I will accept your definition of grace as each person has to know it for him/herself.

Now to the hard part which the Apostle Paul speaks about.

What did God mean when Paul asked him to remove a thorn from his flesh, 3 times and God told him no. God told him that His grace was sufficient for Paul.

Before i answer anymore questions you should answer the one i asked. Thats how proper dialogue goes.

 

[pablocito]

Why are you going on an on with "What is grace?" That was already settled earlier in this thread. So do you even understand what is grace?

Nothing is settled between men. Everything is settled when our Lord Jesus Christ returns.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

 

[pablocito]

Before i answer anymore questions you should answer the one i asked. Thats how proper dialogue goes.

Sorry I am not into tit for tat.
That is a childish game and God did not call me to play any games.

Hope you find what you are searching for on this site.