Trolling

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Ok but the fact remains that the Jews were innocent victims of the Holocaust. More children than adults were killed in many of the camps, if anyone was innocent, they were. I'm sure we can all agree on that.

The Holocaust happened because the Jews and the Gentiles are both guilty of living in an evil world tainted by the Original Sin. Even if people are innocent (the Tower of Siloam principle), it's an evil world and has been since mankind disobeyed God in the Garden, so bad stuff happens in the dark and evil world, it sucks, but it is what it is. The Jews complicity in killing Jesus was just used as a scapegoat by the other people that also murdered Jesus. Then to understand nazism, or the motivatiion for which the nazis specifically carried out what they called the Final Solution (the term Holocaust was made by the Jews and the Christians because of the aforementioned sacrificial type understanding of the event and the religious contexts found in the Bible.) To really try to understand the Final Solution then as the nazis understood it, well it's as its name implies. We have to go the whole extra step of crazy because of the 20th century's big problem belief in Darwinism. To make it super basic, the nazi-thinking was that because they presumed Darwinism to be the basis of physical reality, like other 20th century ideologies, therefore they rationalized that they will magically evolve into god-men (counterfeit Christs really if you think about it deeply) by ethnically cleansing the races that Hitler didn't like from own ego and personal internal psychodrama (the antichrist typology which ZNP alludes to where Hitler basically thought of himself rather as a savior instead of Jesus.)
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Siloam

Luke 13:1-5
1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
 
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make what link? I didn't make any claims. I'm refuting claims that have not been proven.
Given what you quoted from my post, now you're talking nonsense.

There's something off with you.

If anyone knows Dude personally,you may want to reach out.

Continuing this would continue to be bad for your mental health. I'm out .
 
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Given what you quoted from my post, now you're talking nonsense.

There's something off with you.

If anyone knows Dude personally,you may want to reach out.

Continuing this would continue to be bad for your mental health. I'm out .
a claim was made that the Holocaust was scripturally justified that's the claim.... a couple of us have offered counter arguments
 
So you agree God wanted the Jews to return to Israel for the previous 22 years, and that He ultimately used the Holocaust to bring them back.

God's plan has always been the Jews return to Israel. They are still returning to this day.


So why didn't the Jews in Germany go to Israel before the holocaust? I mean if God is speaking to them to come home, why didn't they go? If God warns you for 22 years it is time to leave Germany, and you don't leave, and then instead you wind up in the holocaust, whose fault is that?

Not all Jews are practicing Jews. They had no reason to leave Germany, until Hitler. Not everyone was able to go or afford to go. Many Jews longed to go home. There is reason they would say "next year in Jerusalem".
 
a claim was made that the Holocaust was scripturally justified that's the claim.... a couple of us have offered counter arguments

You realize in the original conversation I offered a counter-argument to the claim of the divine judgment with the principle of Joseph's statement to his brothers "you meant evil for me but God used it for good", and that ZNP actually conceded to that point right? You selectively ignore that fact. That's an important factor too because it shows ZNP wasn't coming at the topic from an antisemitic motivation or from a bad-faith just wanting to troll, it shows that the side topic, while it was a digression in context of Trump Winning type news, it was like a good-faith side debate, he wasn't planning the fourth reich, he was simply discussing a pretty common theological-philosophical issue and was even willing to concede and synthesize counter-arguments such as the one I made. Your problem is you two just don't get along so you keep trying to drag it back to a false framing even after getting a topic locked that really like you and your boys ruined it with your BS and really it's kinda unfair that you're allowed to poison the well and then do that.
 
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Not all Jews are practicing Jews. They had no reason to leave Germany, until Hitler. Not everyone was able to go or afford to go. Many Jews longed to go home. There is reason they would say "next year in Jerusalem".
I don't know how the Germans would know that you are Jewish if you are not a practicing Jew. I also don't even know what that means.

The way I look at it is this, the single most important thing for me is what should I learn so that this does not happen to me. The lesson I learned is that when God warns you about something, you need to listen.

I know God is omnipotent, He could have stopped it, but didn't. I also know God is righteous Judge and that Satan is the accuser of the brethren. It makes sense to me that Satan made a legal claim and God allowed him to act. I can theorize what that claim was but what is not a theory is that God is righteous and His allowing Satan to do what He did was righteous.

Now let's consider what Dude has said. He has been totally outraged at what I have said, to the point he wants to shut down the entire forum by calling on GoDaddy to shut it down due to a violation of their service agreement.

But when I ask him what the correct understanding is he says "there are many biblical interpretations". Seriously? How can you tolerate this garbage. He accuses me of being totally wrong but won't tell us what right is.

Now I was very specific in my requests

"Make sure you address whether or not the broad way that leads to destruction would include the Holocaust on the way. Also make sure you include whether or not the Great White Throne judgement by God in which some people are sent to hell is righteous judgment."

His response "there are many Biblical interpretations".

It is ridiculous to continue to defend this person. I get that these are difficult questions, that is fine. But you don't get to attack someone and try to destroy them for saying something that you claim is wrong if you can't tell us what the right answer is.

Here is the bottom line for me.

1. God is omniscient, He knew that Satan hates the Jews and wanted to destroy them, however, He opened the door for them to return to the land of Israel 22 years before the Holocaust. He saw the danger, He warned them, they ignored the warning.

2. God is omnipotent. As much as people have tried to destroy the Jews while they have been in Israel they have been defended. This is also what the promise in the covenant says. There was no promise to protect them if they lived in Germany, but if they abide in Israel He has promise to protect them and He has been faithful to do that.

3. God is righteous. That means He has not violated any of His promises in the covenant by the Holocaust taking place. Psalm 91 is very clear, abide under the Lord's wings you will be safe, God will protect you. Don't abide there and your fate is in your own hands. The Jews cannot claim to be God's chosen covenant people if they are not keeping the covenant. People die all the time, however, what I am concerned about is my covenant, I have a promise from God what do I need to do to make sure that promise is kept. A covenant is two way, I have a responsibility and God has a responsibility. My responsibility is to listen to what the Lord says and to do it.

As for them not being able to afford to leave Germany. After the holocaust many completely destitute Jews, everything had been stolen from them, they were skin and bones, they left Germany and went to Israel. I don't think you can be any more destitute than they were.
 
I don't know how the Germans would know that you are Jewish if you are not a practicing Jew. I also don't even know what that means.

The Germans knew who was Jewish, whether they were practicing or not. There were records.


It makes sense to me that Satan made a legal claim and God allowed him to act. I can theorize what that claim was but what is not a theory is that God is righteous and His allowing Satan to do what He did was righteous.

We disagree there. I believe we live in a fallen world and we have free will. If the Holocaust was righteous then all of the Jews should have died because they didn't make it to Israel.


"Make sure you address whether or not the broad way that leads to destruction would include the Holocaust on the way.

No, I don't believe so. I don't believe God caused or the Jews are culpable for the Holocaust. They were innocent victims.

Also make sure you include whether or not the Great White Throne judgement by God in which some people are sent to hell is righteous judgment."

That is the future, not right now. It has no bearing on the Holocaust.


Here is the bottom line for me.

1. God is omniscient, He knew that Satan hates the Jews and wanted to destroy them, however, He opened the door for them to return to the land of Israel 22 years before the Holocaust. He saw the danger, He warned them, they ignored the warning.

I don't see that anywhere in Scripture. Israel was available in God's timing, which was 1948, a nation born in a day. I don't know what other date you're talking about.

2. God is omnipotent. As much as people have tried to destroy the Jews while they have been in Israel they have been defendted. This is also what the promise in the covenant says. There was no promise to protect them if they lived in Germany, but if they abide in Israel He has promise to protect them and He has been faithful to do that.
God is righteous. That means He has not violated any of His promises in the covenant by the Holocaust taking place. Psalm 91 is very clear, abide under the Lord's wings you will be safe, God will protect you. Don't abide there and your fate is in your own hands. The Jews cannot claim to be God's chosen covenant people if they are not keeping the covenant. People die all the time, however, what I am concerned about is my covenant, I have a promise from God what do I need to do to make sure that promise is kept. A covenant is two way, I have a responsibility and God has a responsibility. My responsibility is to listen to what the Lord says and to do it.

If that were true there wouldn't be a Jew alive today. Hitler would have succeeded.



As for them not being able to afford to leave Germany. After the holocaust many completely destitute Jews, everything had been stolen from them, they were skin and bones, they left Germany and went to Israel. I don't think you can be any more destitute than they were.

Well I believe they were victims of the Holocaust, I do not believe they brought it on themselves or God caused it. I believe God used it to bring some of the Jews home. But there are Jews all over the world today. God is calling them home. None of them are being Holocausted.
 
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The Germans knew who was Jewish, whether they were practicing or not. There were records.




We disagree there. I believe we live in a fallen world and we have free will. If the Holocaust was righteous then all of the Jews should have died because they didn't make it to Israel.




No, I don't believe so. I don't believe God caused or the Jews are culpable for the Holocaust. They were innocent victims.
Do not misquote me, the Holocaust was not righteous, it was evil. It was not done by God anymore than the attack on Job was not done by God but by Satan.
 
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If that were true there wouldn't be a Jew alive today. Hitler would have succeeded.
No, just like Job God put a limit as to what Satan could do. He could not take Job's life. If you consider Job to refer to all the Jews worldwide, Satan did not wipe them out, he killed one third of them.

There is a scene in the Godfather movie, a man wants the Godfather to kill the boys who assaulted his daughter. He says your daughter is still alive, it is not righteous to kill them. Instead he beat them up severely and put them in the hospital. In the same way when Jesus was crucified that was one third of the Godhead, not all of the Godhead, in return God allowed Satan to kill one third of the Jews, not all of them.
 
also on the other thread I'm trying to figure out how we went from discussing Trump to suddenly BLEEP the Jews..... where is the connection?
 
Do not misquote me, the Holocaust was not righteous, it was evil. It was not done by God anymore than the attack on Job was not done by God but by Satan.

I'm not misquoting, but I don't think I'm understanding your POV either.
 
I'm not misquoting, but I don't think I'm understanding your POV either.
he's lying. everyone saw what he posted. he literally said it was righteous

now he's trying to change his story

he's been called out for saying something horrible and now he's trying to save his face
 
I'm not misquoting, but I don't think I'm understanding your POV either.
When Jesus was born Herod wanted to kill Him and He killed a bunch of young boys two years old and younger. This was prophesied of in the Bible about Rachel weeping for her children and they are not. Now Herod is an antichrist figure just as Hitler was. This was an atrocity. God did not do this, but He did know about it. He warned the wise men not to go back to Herod and He warned Joseph to flee to Egypt.

Now those babies two years old and younger were innocent, that is not up for dispute. But what exactly was the story? At the time of the birth the shepherds saw the angels, went to the town and found the baby and then told a lot of other people. So it is safe to say that everyone in that town knew that Jesus was the coming Christ. Then the magi from the East come with gifts to give to Joseph and Mary, that should have confirmed it to any still wondering.

Now I am not interested in being a casualty of war, if I was the parents of one of those two year old boys what should I have done? First I should have definitely had fellowship with Joseph and Mary and I would have learned a whole lot more about the birth of Jesus and about what Simeon and Anna said. I would have then attached myself to this family since Jesus Christ is the coming king. Then when I saw that they had fled, I would know it is time to flee as well.

In Matthew it says that Joseph was warned in a dream when the wise men left. So I assume that means he wakes up in the morning and tells Mary we got to leave. Then that night they fled. Therefore if you were very close to Joseph and Mary you would have seen them packing up to leave during the day. They might not want to tell you where they are going, but who cares, if God told them to take Jesus and get out of Dodge then you too could get out of dodge as well.

It is the same with Israel. In 1917 it was the fulfillment of several prophecies and visions that several Rabbis had received over the previous two thousand years. One prophecy even told them the year this would happen. There was no secret that the Jews were calling for people to return to Israel and there was no secret that Hitler was a rabid racist against Jews. I have seen several very good documentaries on the situation and everyone was talking about Hitler being anti Jewish, it was simply many people did not want to believe it could get as bad as it did. They heard what they wanted to hear and they disregarded the rest.

The Boxer by Paul Simon

I am just a poor boy
Though my story's seldom told
I have squandered my resistance
For a pocket full of mumbles
Such are promises
All lies and jests
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest


In the clearing stands a boxer
And a fighter by his trade
And he carries the reminders
Of every glove that laid him down
Or cut him 'til he cried out
In his anger and his shame
"I am leaving, I am leaving"
But the fighter still remains


This is my testimony, this is why I left NYC, this is why I have been warning others for the last 3+ years on this forum. What you do with the warning is up to you. But the signs, the wonders and the prophecies are all there, persuasive evidence of the coming tribulation. Jesus warned there would be people who did not prepare, they did not take oil in their vessels and they will be unable to enter the wedding. Not preparing by taking oil is not a sin, but it was their foolishness that results in them being locked out of the wedding feast.
 
also on the other thread I'm trying to figure out how we went from discussing Trump to suddenly BLEEP the Jews..... where is the connection?

This is the better point I was trying to make and pivot us back to the Trump news towards the end the topic cause it was a digression. The meta (basically the Problem of Evil theme) of the argument started with page 234 loosely based off the current news. Then the specific reference to the Holocaust and nazi Germany formally began on page 235. You interject at 236 (I do too but I tried to basically just log on and drop Trump news and get back to the topic of positive sided America/Trump news between doing things offline). From 236-239 you two basically argued all real life day. From 239 then to the end I post some more rrelevant positive Trump news, go back and read the previous pages, and also myself argue with the both of you both in terms of this context and the side debate and trying to also pivot a bit back to the actual topic frankly, my favorite thread in my watch list. So forth and so on until the topic locked. Again that's not complaint on CC, I mean the saga had got to hundreds of pages, even just for basic housekeeping we all were content to leave it be at that judgment of being locked, but here you are Dude still going on about it and reframing it to basically try to either get people banned and then when the manager doesn't come to Karen's beck and call now it's passive aggressive threats to GoDaddy. The side topic about the killing of Jesus now has a more formal topic, if you in a good faith way engaged with that topic you might enjoy it, and you might even make good points too I would add, but it's like if your mentality is just toxic trying to ban those you disagree with or trying to misconstrue and create a havoc to lock the topic, then like hell naw don't read or engage with it, you should just leave, you're the one with the problem, the Christians shouldn't have to work around you dog, you can't kick up dust and then complain that everyone else dirty. This then grounds us back to the current topic of trolling and the meta context of bad-faith-engagement vs. good-faith-engagement.
 
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This is the better point I was trying to make and pivot us back to the Trump news towards the end the topic cause it was a digression. The meta (basically the Problem of Evil theme) of the argument started with page 234 loosely based off the current news. Then the specific reference to the Holocaust and nazi Germany formally began on page 235. You interject at 236 (I do too but I tried to basically just log on and drop Trump news and get back to the topic of positive sided America/Trump news between doing things offline). From 236-239 you two basically argued all real life day. From 239 then to the end I post some more rrelevant positive Trump news, go back and read the previous pages, and also myself argue with the both of you both in terms of this context and the side debate and trying to also pivot a bit back to the actual topic frankly, my favorite thread in my watch list. So forth and so on until the topic locked. Again that's not complaint on CC, I mean the saga had got to hundreds of pages, even just for basic housekeeping we all were content to leave it be at that judgment of being locked, but here you are Dude still going on about it and reframing it to basically try to either get people banned and then when the manager doesn't come to Karen's beck and call now it's passive aggressive threats to GoDaddy. The side topic about the killing of Jesus now has a more formal topic, if you in a good faith way engaged with that topic you might enjoy it, and you might even make good points too I would add, but it's like if your mentality is just toxic trying to ban those you disagree with or trying to misconstrue and create a havoc to lock the topic, then like hell naw don't read or engage with it, you should just leave, you're the one with the problem, the Christians shouldn't have to work around you dog, you can't kick up dust and then complain that everyone else dirty. This then grounds us back to the current topic of trolling and the meta context of bad-faith-engagement vs. good-faith-engagement.
there's nothing to discuss. the 1930s Jews are not complicit in the crucifixion.

the Jews are our strongest and most reliable Ally in the fight against global jihadism ... that's literally all that matters. get on board or go join hamas. I said what I said
 
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This is the better point I was trying to make and pivot us back to the Trump news towards the end the topic cause it was a digression. The meta (basically the Problem of Evil theme) of the argument started with page 234 loosely based off the current news. Then the specific reference to the Holocaust and nazi Germany formally began on page 235. You interject at 236 (I do too but I tried to basically just log on and drop Trump news and get back to the topic of positive sided America/Trump news between doing things offline). From 236-239 you two basically argued all real life day. From 239 then to the end I post some more rrelevant positive Trump news, go back and read the previous pages, and also myself argue with the both of you both in terms of this context and the side debate and trying to also pivot a bit back to the actual topic frankly, my favorite thread in my watch list. So forth and so on until the topic locked. Again that's not complaint on CC, I mean the saga had got to hundreds of pages, even just for basic housekeeping we all were content to leave it be at that judgment of being locked, but here you are Dude still going on about it and reframing it to basically try to either get people banned and then when the manager doesn't come to Karen's beck and call now it's passive aggressive threats to GoDaddy. The side topic about the killing of Jesus now has a more formal topic, if you in a good faith way engaged with that topic you might enjoy it, and you might even make good points too I would add, but it's like if your mentality is just toxic trying to ban those you disagree with or trying to misconstrue and create a havoc to lock the topic, then like hell naw don't read or engage with it, you should just leave, you're the one with the problem, the Christians shouldn't have to work around you dog, you can't kick up dust and then complain that everyone else dirty. This then grounds us back to the current topic of trolling and the meta context of bad-faith-engagement vs. good-faith-engagement.

yesterday the KKK approached me and said that they think all black people are inherently complicit in violent crime in america..... but if I just hear them out, we might have a constructive conversation. see how stupid that sounds?
 
Although free speech is a thing, this isn't the government. Maybe users can report posts/users that are not in good standing or in line with the purposes and intent of this platform? I don't know. Just a thought.
Psalm 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment. 31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide. 32 The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him. 33 The Lord will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged. 34 Wait on the Lord, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
 
yesterday the KKK approached me and said that they think all black people are inherently complicit in violent crime in america..... but if I just hear them out, we might have a constructive conversation. see how stupid that sounds?
My godfather (when I was baptized this man was charged with my spiritual training) was a lay minister and his ministry was helping churches that the KKK had bombed. He raised money to help them. Because of that the KKK bombed his house where his wife and two small children were inside along with him. They weren't hurt physically, the house was damaged, and the ministry recalled them to Washington DC. His wife was unable to handle the threat of violence from the KKK and she divorced him. So there was some damage done. I sat in family meetings with my uncle who lived in Mississippi where they felt threatened because of the attack on my godfather, feeling that his defense of the churches attacked by the KKK put his family at risk as well. However about ten years later the man responsible for placing the bomb confessed and repented and my godfather forgave him. This was done publicly. So it did turn out to be a good training to me in the spiritual walk. We may have those who seek to slay us, but ultimately the wicked will be cut off and I was able to see it. What better way to cut off the KKK than for this former member to confess and repent and be forgiven.

In Psalms it says "with God there is forgiveness that He might be feared". Satan keeps people in bondage, in fear that they can never be forgiven, so for this to be public was a strong testimony to everyone in the KKK that you too can come forth, confess, repent and be forgiven. That is a big encouragement to whistleblowers and no doubt puts the leaders of the KKK in absolute fear and trembling.
 
I wouldn't regard true Christians who do so as soft-brained, rather it's God heaping more coals of fire over the heads of those condemned.
Luke 16:18 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
 
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