Trolling

[Dude653]

also, please explain how someone who existed in the 1930s can be complicit in a murder 2,000 years before they were born?

I wasn't aware that the 1930s Jews had time travel technology

 

[Dude653]

Sigh that's like literally saying you're not making a threat to report the site to cloudflare, but then following up with basically a threat. But let's not even play the stupid game. Why don't you just leave? I don't mean that in the standoffish way, but'kinda like why force yourself to be miserable I guess to say? Maybe it's a generational perspective, but it seems just kinda dumb to come to a Christian forum, pretend to be outraged that the Bible says the Jews killed Jesus (really everyone in the world), and then pull out of context someone's personal exchange around the Problem of Evil. It makes zero sense to come and basically argue for atheists and promote them like Sam Harris while trashing all Christians. Like you even purposefully misquote him as saying "We will kill you" while showing the quote that doesn't even say that at all nor does the context of the full conversation include that at all. So like why don't you just leave? Why should people have to bend themselves or religion to you?

no I never said anything about reporting I'm just commenting on the possible or even likely outcomes if someone were to report us. I've been here for 15 years and I don't want the forum shut down.

and yes, that comment did say you killed jesus, we will do the same to you. this is righteous judgment


as you have done, will be done unto you.

there's no sugar coating it? that was a death threat

 

[SonJudgment]

also, please explain how someone who existed in the 1930s can be complicit in a murder 2,000 years before they were born?

I wasn't aware that the 1930s Jews had time travel technology

Cause Jesus is the Son of God, if you would engage in better faith with the forum instead of just try to force a hatecrime always you'd maybe like the topic. It's not an unusual topic either in other religion and history type forums and communities onlinem especially in the context to which they were talking about it in their conversation (they ween't holding a nazi rally, they were having more of a digression of a highly controvesial but pretty well trode over topic, and I would also note ZNP did actually amend his view and concede to my view too, which is actually the conventional Jewish view I would add btw and why it is even called the Holocaust to begin with. Just the fact that when approached from an intellectual view fitting the context of their digression he conede major points, that's not something a neonazi or serious hategroup would ever do.) It's tied with the Problem of Evil, and in Christianity tied to like the Original Sin and other such topics. All of mankind is guilty of killing God's Son one way or another by virtue of them sinning. Even all the apostles indirectly are complicit too btw, think like Peter's three denials for instance. Well guess what race Peter was? Yea guessed it, he was Jewish. Peter would not deny he was a sinner and responsible in part for Jesus death, but he showed mature understanding and became a great Christian saint. All the twelve apostles are Jewish, and all of them fled from Jesus in the Garden, so they're guilty of not defending the King of Kings along with the Jewish authorities who were the wicked Sadduccees and Pharisses that wickedly falsely accused kinda using yoyur similar tactics actually, and their puppet king Herod, and they inveigled even the Romans into it too and the Romans functionally owned the world and functionally killed Jesus too. So matter you wanna work it, whether it's the collective sin of mankind, whether it's your personal sin neccessitating your need for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ being the only one who ever died for you, well you're guilty of killing the Son of God, so am I, so is everyone else. That's kind of a major point of the Chritian religion.

 

[Dude653]

also, I'm sure any moment now, someone will go ahead and explain how the 1930s Jews managed to time travel back 2000 years and kill jesus.

this is yet to be addressed as the threads keep getting shut down but someone please tell me more about these time traveling murderous Jews.

 

[SonJudgment]

no I never said anything about reporting I'm just commenting on the possible or even likely outcomes if someone were to report us. I've been here for 15 years and I don't want the forum shut down.

and yes, that comment did say you killed jesus, we will do the same to you. this is righteous judgment

it does not say "We will kill you" you interjected that and you also clipped the comment too I would add. He's making the case, and some of the people in the Holocaust also make this case, that essentially it's divine retribution/judgment. My point of view was it's more like a sacrifice, and that is the actual standard view that's why they call it the Holocaust and I gave my reasoning more akin to the context of ZNP's discussion at the time being Joseph's response in esssence ot his brothers and drew parallels to the foudnation of Israel and basically the whole point for why they exist as a nationstate. ZNP even conceded and agreed to my point because I understood and approach their side debate from the context he was talking in, not like a hostile woke karen-mentality like you did, that's the real deal. If he were actually an antisemitic person himself, or if the site were antisemitic or lenient towards it liek you alleged, why the would he agree with the standard Jewish view? I mean heck why would he even make any sorta of concession at all?

 

[Doll]

also, please explain how someone who existed in the 1930s can be complicit in a murder 2,000 years before they were born?

I wasn't aware that the 1930s Jews had time travel technology

Because the Jews who killed Jesus involved a curse upon themselves and their children. Which means,future generations. Matthew 27.

Do you see, your issue isn't Antisemitism.

Your issue is,you don't actually know the scriptures.

https://biblehub.com/topical/ttt/t/...rejecting_and_killing_christ,_illustrated.htm

 

[SonJudgment]

also, I'm sure any moment now, someone will go ahead and explain how the 1930s Jews managed to time travel back 2000 years and kill jesus.

There is a recent topic in the BDF that actually if you approach it in good faith be pretty good toask or theorize around, if you can handle yourself that is, that would actually be points to make. However I mean if your mentality is just to be hostile always or if it triggers you and bothers you and oh we're all just hateful bigots and all sorts whatevers, like hell naw, don't go read it. That's just like common sense.

 

[SonJudgment]

Because the Jews who killed Jesus involved a curse upon themselves and their children. Which means,future generations. Matthew 27.

Do you see, your issue isn't Antisemitism.

Your issue is,you don't actually know the scriptures.

https://biblehub.com/topical/ttt/t/...rejecting_and_killing_christ,_illustrated.htm

They are cursed, but so are the Gentiles, but that's also the sacrifice and also the importance of faith. Jesus death is a sacrifice and having faith in that sacrifice = salvation if we try to be like really basic about it. Not having faith in Jesus and his sacrifice, well you die in your sins and go to Hell, that's the view. Sorry if it's controversial, but that is the religion.

 

[Levib]

no, I just want the hate speech to stop.
also I know for a fact it at least one other member has reached out to mods in the past regarding this very same anti-semitic rhetoric

Now we are getting to an honest discussion. Whose definition of antisemitism should be used to evaluate this. I don’t think that it’s “no one cares” so much as this doesn’t quite rise to the level you perceive it has.

I was surprised that the US department of state has their published definition and I don’t think this quite checks all the boxes. Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward the Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals, their property, community, institution, religious facilities.

- The comment doesn’t show a hatred for the Jews nor does it appear to be directed at a anyone. It’s merely stating a hypothesis or poorly thought out opinion.

Examples of antisemitism include- Justifying the harming of Jews if it is “in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion”.

The comment doesn’t align or purport to align with any radical ideology or extremist religion I’m familiar with.

Then it says “accusing the Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or committed by non-Jewish”

This sounds like it could be implicated except “Jews as a people” is intending the present form of Jews as a people. Meaning it is not antiemetic to say the tribe of Benjamin deserved to be cut off from the Jews - because it isn’t a continued hatred of the present Jewish people.

Or we could adopt a more liberal Google definition of antisemitism - “hostility(unfriendly) toward Jewish people”; then consider Jesus would be an antisemite since he opposed the Jewish leaders and was condemned to death for it. So all of his followers (Christians) would be antisemites also. Then the very idea of any Christian site would violate the terms of service.

 

[Dude653]

Now we are getting to an honest discussion. Whose definition of antisemitism should be used to evaluate this. I don’t think that it’s “no one cares” so much as this doesn’t quite rise to the level you perceive it has.

I was surprised that the US department of state has their published definition and I don’t think this quite checks all the boxes. Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward the Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals, their property, community, institution, religious facilities.

- The comment doesn’t show a hatred for the Jews nor does it appear to be directed at a anyone. It’s merely stating a hypothesis or poorly thought out opinion.

Examples of antisemitism include- Justifying the harming of Jews if it is “in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion”.

The comment doesn’t align or purport to align with any radical ideology or extremist religion I’m familiar with.

Then it says “accusing the Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or committed by non-Jewish”

This sounds like it could be implicated except “Jews as a people” is intending the present form of Jews as a people. Meaning it is not antiemetic to say the tribe of Benjamin deserved to be cut off from the Jews - because it isn’t a continued hatred of the present Jewish people.

Or we could adopt a more liberal Google definition of antisemitism - “hostility(unfriendly) toward Jewish people”; then consider Jesus would be an antisemite since he opposed the Jewish leaders and was condemned to death for it. So all of his followers (Christians) would be antisemites also. Then the very idea of any Christian site would violate the terms of service.

assigning collective blame to an entire race of people for something they didn't do is pretty much the definition of hate speech.

imagine if I said every black person who will ever exist is complicit in the DC sniper shootings.

I would be banned immediately.

why don't the Jews get that same courtesy?

I can't think of any other reason other than some people just hate jews.

 

[Dude653]

Now we are getting to an honest discussion. Whose definition of antisemitism should be used to evaluate this. I don’t think that it’s “no one cares” so much as this doesn’t quite rise to the level you perceive it has.

I was surprised that the US department of state has their published definition and I don’t think this quite checks all the boxes. Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward the Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals, their property, community, institution, religious facilities.

- The comment doesn’t show a hatred for the Jews nor does it appear to be directed at a anyone. It’s merely stating a hypothesis or poorly thought out opinion.

Examples of antisemitism include- Justifying the harming of Jews if it is “in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion”.

The comment doesn’t align or purport to align with any radical ideology or extremist religion I’m familiar with.

Then it says “accusing the Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or committed by non-Jewish”

This sounds like it could be implicated except “Jews as a people” is intending the present form of Jews as a people. Meaning it is not antiemetic to say the tribe of Benjamin deserved to be cut off from the Jews - because it isn’t a continued hatred of the present Jewish people.

Or we could adopt a more liberal Google definition of antisemitism - “hostility(unfriendly) toward Jewish people”; then consider Jesus would be an antisemite since he opposed the Jewish leaders and was condemned to death for it. So all of his followers (Christians) would be antisemites also. Then the very idea of any Christian site would violate the terms of service.

I've been here for 15 years and it didn't used to be like this people screaming the Jews are terrible because they killed Jesus

also I think this is the third time I've asked. please explain how someone who exists in the 1930s can be complicit in the murder of someone 2000 years before they were born?


also please provide scripture where it says the Jews deserve the Holocaust

 

[Doll]

I think at this point even the dead horse is saying,enough already.

 

[Levib]

I've been here for 15 years and it didn't used to be like this people screaming the Jews are terrible because they killed Jesus

also I think this is the third time I've asked. please explain how someone who exists in the 1930s can be complicit in the murder of someone 2000 years before they were born?


also please provide scripture where it says the Jews deserve the Holocaust

I feel like you are being sincere and something I was taught a long time ago was, stick to the facts and try not to exaggerate them.

No doubt the world has fallen spiritually in the last 15 years. I think the question you are trying to answer is, how do people blame the Jews. It is obvious to me the primary reason is lack of basic Bible knowledge. Most of the time that is because people will not read the Bible for themselves. So some of what you are seeing may meet a definition of antisemitism when it is only ignorance. I pray you would see it for what it is, and you being the more knowledgeable one, take time to present the accurate gospel to them which they not received.

also please provide scripture where it says the Jews deserve the Holocaust

I can’t do that from any translation I’d bother reading. I assume they are miss-reading Matthew 25 where they ask for the blood of Jesus to be on their hands and their descendants. The first problem with this is, this is only recorded in one gospel. It stands alone and should not be used for the basis of any doctrine. Second, it was not the Jews that killed Jesus, it was a small group of Jews who didn't follow the Mosaic law. Lastly, Jesus said no one could kill him unless he surrendered his life. The real irony here is those Jews didn’t kill Jesus, he surrendered his life to pay the price of his followers’ sins. So everyone that has sinned are responsible for killing Jesus. The double irony is that the blood of Jesus is what paid for our sins. When the group of Jews asks for Jesus’ blood to be on their hands, they are unknowingly asking for salvation to be on their descendants (that does not make them saved). What is meant to be a curse, is salvation.

Now, is God obligated to honor a curse? If given the choice, which one do you think God would honor? In the Bible the judgments swift and applied to those that disobey God. Not innocent people thousands of years later.

 

[Doll]

I feel like you are being sincere and something I was taught a long time ago was, stick to the facts and try not to exaggerate them.

No doubt the world has fallen spiritually in the last 15 years. I think the question you are trying to answer is, how do people blame the Jews. It is obvious to me the primary reason is lack of basic Bible knowledge. Most of the time that is because people will not read the Bible for themselves. So some of what you are seeing may meet a definition of antisemitism when it is only ignorance. I pray you would see it for what it is, and you being the more knowledgeable one, take time to present the accurate gospel to them which they not received.



I can’t do that from any translation I’d bother reading. I assume they are miss-reading Matthew 25 where they ask for the blood of Jesus to be on their hands and their descendants. The first problem with this is, this is only recorded in one gospel. It stands alone and should not be used for the basis of any doctrine. Second, it was not the Jews that killed Jesus, it was a small group of Jews who didn't follow the Mosaic law. Lastly, Jesus said no one could kill him unless he surrendered his life. The real irony here is those Jews didn’t kill Jesus, he surrendered his life to pay the price of his followers’ sins. So everyone that has sinned are responsible for killing Jesus. The double irony is that the blood of Jesus is what paid for our sins. When the group of Jews asks for Jesus’ blood to be on their hands, they are unknowingly asking for salvation to be on their descendants (that does not make them saved). What is meant to be a curse, is salvation.

Now, is God obligated to honor a curse? If given the choice, which one do you think God would honor? In the Bible the judgments swift and applied to those that disobey God. Not innocent people thousands of years later.

You're talking about ignorance of scripture to someone who is ignorant of scripture.

Which is why he fixates on the false charge of antisemitism.
When it comes to inflammatory posts,Dude has posted his fair share.
Further, besides the false charge of antisemitism regarding the members reference to the Holocaust, the Jews history after the murder of Christ reflects a curse upon them.

Jesus was illegally tried by the Sanhedrin before he was executed.

The Jewish leaders in the temple enlisted Pilates assistance in killing Jesus because they , finding Jesus worthy of death for blasphemy, under Roman law could not kill him themselves.
Plus,it was near to Passover. And capital punishment was forbidden.

Thinking a small group of people are responsible for Christ's crucifixion is error.

The Sanhedrin charged Jesus with Blasphemy. Which offended the whole of the faith.

Rome,if we recall, washed its hands of trying Jesus. Pilate represented Rome,as did all governors and authorities.

When Roman authorities tried and executed prisoners,it was understood as Rome,all of Rome, passed judgement. For the sake of the realm.

When Rome refused to prosecute Jesus for violating the laws the Sanhedrin claimed he broke, the only ones responsible for killing him were the Sanhedrin.

And the crowd of Jews attending when the tradition of releasing a prisoner on the eve of passover ensued.

Every Jew there calling the name of Barabbas were also responsible for killing Jesus. Because they knew, if that one prisoner was released,then Jesus would remain to be crucified.

Yes,Jesus had to die. No one takes the life of God manifest without God's permission.

However, the Jews suffer to this day after rejecting the Messiah,because they did reject Jesus as Messiah and they did kill him.

That's not antisemitism. That charge is a feeble attempt to remove responsibility from those who killed Christ.

They lay a curse upon themselves and their children,which meant all future generations,if they were wrong in killing Jesus. If they were in error murdering the Messiah they had looked forward to for generations.
And as such,when they involved a curse upon themselves if they were wrong I. Killing Imma uel,so too did they curse their people as murderers of Messiah for generations.

That's not antisemitism. That's scripture. And history.

The Jews: Punishment of, for Rejecting and Killing Christ, Illustrated​

 

[Levib]

However, the Jews suffer to this day after rejecting the Messiah,because they did reject Jesus as Messiah

Just because someone suffers it doesn’t mean they are rejecting God, it doesn’t mean it is a judgment from God either. Now if the Jews were facing a judgment from God it would be because they continue to reject Jesus, not because he harbors hatred over His death. Except the Jews don’t really seem to be suffering. They are flourishing well above everyone else. Most of the hatred of the Jews is plain jealousy. I’ve never met a suffering Jew in the US.

 

[ZNP]

What is Dude's view on the Holocaust?

It is absurd that Christians would be antisemites. (I am not denying that some who claim to be Christian are, I am simply pointing out the absurdity). Jesus was Jewish, as were the 12 apostles. Every writer of the New Testament except for Luke, was Jewish.

I understand that @Dude653 is quite upset with what is being shared here concerning the Holocaust, but the discussion is foolish until Dude tells us what his view is. He did say in one post that it was God's fault, but then in a private message to me said that was a joke.

Claiming that it was God's fault, well that would be blasphemy. But joking about it being God's fault?

God is omnipotent and omniscient. If you say God did not know what was being done to the Jews, then that is blasphemy. If you say God knew but couldn't stop it that also is blasphemy. Since God could have stopped it and didn't, that is equivalent to saying God allowed it. Doesn't mean He sanctioned it. Doesn't mean He ordered it. Doesn't mean He did it. But just like with Job God allowed Satan to take one third of the Jews in the Holocaust.

Any other view is blasphemy against God.

God's throne is established on righteousness. The only reason Satan could have been allowed to do what He did was if He was able to make a legal case in a court of law before the righteous judge. You can debate what that legal case was.

But, God cannot sin, He is righteous, He is omnipotent and He is omniscient. Any other view is blasphemy against God.

 

[ZNP]

If the Broad way leads to destruction, and if some people are sent to hell at the Great White Throne, and if God is a righteous judge, then it stands to reason that being sent to Hell is righteous judgment.

If people think that God is not really serious and Jesus is not really serious about that then take a look at the Holocaust. That was an example of how serious hell is. How many warnings does God need to give before people will take Him seriously?

But I would like to hear @Dude653 explain what God meant by hell, what Jesus meant by hell, and what his view of the holocaust is.

 

[Dude653]

I believe I have made my position abundantly clear so I don't know why we keep needing to rehash. ...
the 1930s Jews are not complicit in the crucifixion of Christ unless they built the time machine and went back 2,000 years.

assigning collective guilt to an entire race of people for something they didn't do is hate speech.
this type of rhetoric encourages anti-Semitism and violence against jews.

and then for someone to literally say you killed jesus, the same will happen to you. 6 million murders were righteously justified


if you can't see how that constitutes hate speech I can't help you and you are a lost cause.

 

[ZNP]

I believe I have made my position abundantly clear so I don't know why we keep needing to rehash. ...
the 1930s Jews are not complicit in the crucifixion of Christ unless they built the time machine and went back 2,000 years.

assigning collective guilt to an entire race of people for something they didn't do is hate speech.
this type of rhetoric encourages anti-Semitism and violence against jews.

and then for someone to literally say you killed jesus, the same will happen to you. 6 million murders were righteously justified


if you can't see how that constitutes hate speech I can't help you and you are a lost cause.

Yes, that is clear, but what is your view concerning God and the Bible. Do you believe the Holocaust was prophesied in the Bible. Do you believe the Holocaust was a burnt offering, an atoning sacrifice that led to them returning to Israel?

You have not explained to us what God's role was despite you castigating me and insulting me over my opinion. By all means, tell us your opinion.

Do you believe in Hell? Do you believe that God will send people to hell at the Great white throne judgment? Do you believe those who are sent to hell will be a result of righteous judgment? Do you believe the Bible is the word of God?

 

[ZNP]

The bottom line is that @Dude653 is telling me my understanding of the Holocaust is wrong. But he has yet to tell us what the correct understanding is.