Trinity or Unity

[Magenta]

Well Sir, My spin on the Godhead is Jesus the Son of God is called the Everlasting Father in the Book of Isaiah, the brightness of the Fathers Glory in Hebrews 1 . The one in whom it pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness dwell. ( Colossians) For all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily . Jesus Christ is the Creator His name is above every name that is named. Now the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of God the Spirit of the Father The Spirit of Christ . What I have noticed if you try to separate the Godhead into three persons you get into error. You don't get one without the other . It's a package deal . I think we limit God
. How could he be controlling the universe while walking the dusty roads as God in the flesh. Hey , "We will understand it better by and by".

Who Jesus Is

 

[Magenta]

Thanks , I've come across Isaiah 9:6 before and in isolation it does seem to refer to Jesus.
Again, in Colossians, depending on translation, it seems to say Jesus is part of the Godhead

Isaiah 9:6

 

[Wansvic]

Hi Wansvic:



Disagree. The Father and Son are Two Persons, and the Holy Spirit is the Third.

In Jn 8:17-18, the Lord Jesus says: 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

Did you see what He just said? He said He is One Person who testifies, and the Father is another Person who confirms the testimony. They are two witnesses which means they are Two Persons who give witness/testimony to the Lord's Mission.

Also, go back to Genesis 18:1-3: "18 Then the Lord appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3 and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant."

Abraham sees Three Men and he addresses Them as One Lord. Who are these Three Persons? A Theophany/Manifestation of the Triune or Tri-Personal God. Again in Genesis, in many other places, God uses the "Our" or "Us" speaking of His Son and His Spirit, i.e. the Second and Third Persons in His Holy Trinity.

One of the prayers in the Eastern Orthodox Church is based on this passage: "Of old as you appeared clearly to Abraham, triple in person and single by the nature of the Godhead, you revealed in figure the pure doctrine of the Godhead, and faithfully we sing your praise, Almighty God". God is One and Triune.

God Bless.

My post concerned Jesus' command for the apostles to baptize in the NAME of..., and what that meant as seen by the apostles actions as recorded in the word. (Matt. 28:19) They obeyed Jesus command by consistently water baptizing in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) There is no mention in scripture of the phrase Father, Son and Holy Ghost ever being used while administering water baptism.

 

[Wansvic]

Even 'though it's mysterious (at least to me), I tend to think these kinds of texts point to the idea that Jesus is God. But I need to consider it in light of other biblical things.

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1 Tim 3:16

"For in him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Col 2:9

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Hi Wansvic, just passing through, will respond in more detail later.

1. Firstly, Baptism in the Name of "Jesus Christ" or "Lord Jesus" is mentioned to distinguish it from John's Baptism.
2. Secondly, Trinitarians can accept that Baptism was conferred in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ in the Early Church.
3. That doesn't prove Modalism and is compatible with Trinitarian Theology. In the Old Testament, the Name "Yahweh" which means "I AM WHOM AM" or "HE WHO IS" is often used to describe the Father, but sometimes it is used to describe the Spirit and the Son also. Similarly, it is possible the Apostles may have used the Name of Our Lord in place of the Name of the Trinity. Later on, when people started saying Jesus and the Father are One Person, the Church stopped doing this. God Bless.

Jesus says, The Father loves the Son. The Father sends the Son. The Father speaks from the clouds while His Son is silent.

All these show the Father and the Son are Two Persons. Only One Person sends Another Person. Hence, they are Two Persons.

Similarly, the Holy Spirit is the Third Person. Jesus says, when He goes, He will send Him to us, referring to the Spirit as "Him".

 

[Wansvic]

Thanks , I've come across Isaiah 9:6 before and in isolation it does seem to refer to Jesus. Again, in Colossians, depending on translation, it seems to say Jesus is part of the Godhead

Consider Jesus also said He is the root and the offspring of David. In the natural one would think Jesus could only be the offspring of David.

"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." Rev. 22:16

 

[Magenta]

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit,
seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1 Tim 3:16

"For in him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Col 2:9

1 Timothy 3:16

 

[Wansvic]

Hi Wansvic, just passing through, will respond in more detail later.

1. Firstly, Baptism in the Name of "Jesus Christ" or "Lord Jesus" is mentioned to distinguish it from John's Baptism.
2. Secondly, Trinitarians can accept that Baptism was conferred in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ in the Early Church.
3. That doesn't prove Modalism and is compatible with Trinitarian Theology. In the Old Testament, the Name "Yahweh" which means "I AM WHOM AM" or "HE WHO IS" is often used to describe the Father, but sometimes it is used to describe the Spirit and the Son also. Similarly, it is possible the Apostles may have used the Name of Our Lord in place of the Name of the Trinity. Later on, when people started saying Jesus and the Father are One Person, the Church stopped doing this. God Bless.

Jesus says, The Father loves the Son. The Father sends the Son. The Father speaks from the clouds while His Son is silent.

All these show the Father and the Son are Two Persons. Only One Person sends Another Person. Hence, they are Two Persons.

Similarly, the Holy Spirit is the Third Person. Jesus says, when He goes, He will send Him to us, referring to the Spirit as "Him".

You mention the church stopped abiding by the word of God of their own accord. (#3) And that is true. The "church" made a dire mistake when they usurped God authority and changed the established why of water baptizing at the Nicean Council of 325 A.D. God always has a reason for requiring mankind to obey His specific instructions. And according to Paul we are to be baptized in the name of the one who was crucified for us. (1 Cor. 1:13-15) And in doing so we are considered as having been buried with Jesus into His death. (Romans 6:3-6) Consider that God Himself said that man has made His word of none effect by their tradition. (Mark 7:13) Scary thought, but true.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Jesus says, The Father loves the Son. The Father sends the Son. The Father speaks from the clouds while His Son is silent.

All these show the Father and the Son are Two Persons. Only One Person sends Another Person. Hence, they are Two Persons.

Similarly, the Holy Spirit is the Third Person. Jesus says, when He goes, He will send Him to us, referring to the Spirit as "Him".

just to throw a monkey wrench into the mix.....


John 14:10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own; but the Father [[dwelling in Me]] does His works.

anyone who can comprehend word structure will see one clear thing here that has a distinct meaning.

1. the Father is living inside Jesus doing the Talking and His Works
2. the Father is also in Heaven on His Throne

in Verse 10 we can see God's Omnipresence.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

another monkey wrench...

18 “Therefore hear the word of Adonai. I saw Adonai sitting on His throne, with all the hosts of heaven standing by Him on His right hand and on His left.

19 “Therefore hear the word of Adonai. I saw Adonai sitting on His throne, with all the hosts of heaven standing by Him on His right hand and on His left.

from Kings and Chronicles mentioned twice:


All of Heaven is Present. where's the 3 Persons of God? these Verses say ALL of Heaven is present but i only see One Person of God!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

another monkey wrench...

18 “Therefore hear the word of Adonai. I saw Adonai sitting on His throne, with all the hosts of heaven standing by Him on His right hand and on His left.

19 “Therefore hear the word of Adonai. I saw Adonai sitting on His throne, with all the hosts of heaven standing by Him on His right hand and on His left.

from Kings and Chronicles mentioned twice:


All of Heaven is Present. where's the 3 Persons of God? these Verses say ALL of Heaven is present but i only see One Person of God!

why did God want this Specific Verse mentioned TWICE in 2 different Books of the Holy Scroll?

as you can see, i read Scripture then ask why/how/what/etc...

Verse 10 in John 14 and these 2 Verses from Chronicles and Kings really are clear in meaning but go against my views.

should i be changing my views because of these Verses?

then when you add Matthew 28:19 is about what NAME = Father-Son-Holy Spirit?

and Peter thinks it is Jesus in Acts 2:38

should i be thinking the same thing?

 

[JaumeJ]

Thanks , I've come across Isaiah 9:6 before and in isolation it does seem to refer to Jesus. Again, in Colossians, depending on translation, it seems to say Jesus is part of the Godhead

No, it is the believers are somewhat deceived for now.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Going to the Bible itself is the thing. What does it say in context?

Revelation has Jesus calling Himself the alpha and omega.. which is full diety.. a term for the Father..equality with the Father. Then Jesus speaks to the churches which is also the Spirit speaking.

At the beginning of John you've got Jesus as the Word being with God and all things being made thru Him. In Genesis you've got the Spirit of God there at the same time.

I see this as one being.. God in three expressions... at the same time.. equal.. all fully God.

Yes and each manifestation has its own function and purpose Gods spirit is meant to come into our hearts and dwell
In us , the son was the mediator of Gods word and sacrifice of atonement resurrected lord forever , and then the father is the creator and source of all thkngs

it’s one God revealing himself three times because there’s three functions in salvation

God in the heavens couldn’t die for sin until he was made flesh , and he couldn’t send his spirit until he was resurrected and exalted to the throne

because of the salvstion plan we see three aspects or manifestations of the only God

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

If they (triune god) don't have 3 differ minds; then they are NOT 3 different persons.

The Bible is clear the Lord and the Holy Spirit each have a mind.

 

[Wansvic]

"Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" John 14:8-9

 

[Inquisitor]

@JaumeJ
@persistent
@The_Watchers_2017
@Aussie52
@XavierJesusLovesIndia


Father, Son and Holy Ghost are titles, they are not names.

The apostles consistently obeyed Jesus' command recorded in Matthew 29:18 by baptizing in a name. That name is Jesus. Every detailed water baptism account, without exception, indicates the apostles used the Name of the Lord Jesus in obedience to Jesus' command.

Acts 2:38-39 (Jewish)
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:43-48 (Gentiles)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who were baptized by John the Baptist did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name. After being told they were re-baptized in water and afterward received the Holy Ghost.

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he (Ananias) said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made of no effect.

 

[No_One_Special]

When I try to understand the Trinity I get a headache. It's really hard to understand.

So, rather than try to understand it, I just remind myself that I've got Jesus. My headache usually goes away.

 

[Eli1]

When I try to understand the Trinity I get a headache. It's really hard to understand.

So, rather than try to understand it, I just remind myself that I've got Jesus. My headache usually goes away.

‘Now this right here is wonderful. ❤️

 

[riverhooks]

One God or Three. ?? One Person or Three ?? Jesus said , understand you not that I am in the Father and the Father in Me . God is a Spirit . Jesus Said. When Jesus says , I am in the Father is He saying the same thing as Paul in Acts . "In Him we live and move and have our being ? I think I settled down when I realized that the Almighty was just not really tall but as a Spirit so large that I was IN HIM. You don't get one without the other.

 

[Jesusfollower]

Some transliterated Hebrew may aid in understanding.
El may be translated as God. Eli, with that suffix, i, becomes the first person possessive, My God, as Jesus Yeshua cried from the Csross.

Elohim is plural, also translated as God Back in those times people would refer to God as El which literally translates as mighty one. Elohim is Mighty ones.

When Moses asked God's name, he was given Yahweh. As far as I have been able to discern through my limited linguistic prowess Yahweh is most closely akin to the gerund forrm "noun that is" of the infinitive , to be, however to be in the active form. That is saying self-existing.

The gist of thisis God will be What He will be. Bearing this in mind we then understand that The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are God, and they are One. I believe this on faith, not on total understanding however this does explain also Isaiah 9?6.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Couns Note: this quote did not fully past in, so you may include the names God Almighty, Eternal Father, Ruler of Peace along witeh Wonderful and Counselor. Glitch?

So name may be singular or plural however for the sake of order, I believe it best to keep it to singular, since all things are possible with our Maker, Yahweh.

Outstanding!

Peace be with you always,

JF