Trinity haters on CC

[Magenta]

Someone asked about Jesus asking, just before He died on the cross, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?"

I cannot find that post now and do not know if anyone answered...

Jesus was quoting Psalm 22. Psalm 22 is a prophecy of Jesus' crucifixion.

 

[dcontroversal]

How do you get that from THE WORD WAS GOD? You have to outright reject what Scripture explicitly states to deny that Jesus is God.

There are many scriptures that must be rejected to deny the Deity of Jesus.............

 

[CS1]

I find your attitude to be similar to many church rebels who hang out here. Much of this thread contains their posts.

It seems to be the attitude of the guy who formed the cult I belonged to. He viewed himself as being the only one who was able to discern what Scripture said, and put no weight on church history. It is a very prideful attitude, and leads into spiritual darkness ultimately. I realize I'm not the first Christian to come on the scene, and that I stand on the shoulders of other great men of God.

By the way, the prevailing view of theologians is in line with Scripture. One can easily refer to the Scriptures they cite to verify it.

It is obvious there is one God in one sense, and there are three Persons. Christianity has described the oneness as one of being or essence, and the threeness in terms of person. This is perfectly coherent, and there is no conflict.

This statement you made is perfectly correct and consistent with Trinitarianism, only you can't take away one of the Persons because they are coessential: The word 'His' refers to God but God is comprised of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Take away one or more of these entities and there would be no God.

Maybe you have a vocabulary issue, but it's hard to tell.

excuse me sir, you just lose the argument by attacking this brother. Be it known not you or anyone can fully know the full Nature of the living God. We are to approach the Eternal Godhead reverently and humbly.

 

[jaybird88]

Sounds like more make-believe persecution.

With our society of religious ignorance, I doubt half of the professing Christians would care about core Christian beliefs.

Some can’t even figure out that marriage is between a man and a woman. You would fit in ok there.

so when you said non trins should not be allowed, that was make believe. lol ok

 

[jaybird88]

How do you get that from THE WORD WAS GOD? You have to outright reject what Scripture explicitly states to deny that Jesus is God.

but your doing exactly what i was talking about. that verse says the "word" was the Most High, not Jesus. Jesus may be the Almighty, its not for me to say, but i would not feel right making that proclamation on an assumption, assuming word means Jesus. and if the purpose of that verse is to teach us that Jesus is the Most High, then why does it not just say that. im not saying He is not.

 

[dcontroversal]

excuse me sir, you just lose the argument by attacking this brother. Be it known not you or anyone can fully know the full Nature of the living God. We are to approach the Eternal Godhead reverently and humbly.

Amen.....trying to grasp the full scope of God is akin to a flea trying to comprehend the man that just sprayed it with flea and tick killer.......

To whom shall we liken GOD.........NO ONE!

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

excuse me sir, you just lose the argument by attacking this brother. Be it known not you or anyone can fully know the full Nature of the living God. We are to approach the Eternal Godhead reverently and humbly.

I never claimed that anyone can know God fully. One can know that God is Triune, though, because Scripture clearly teaches it. Scripture reveals God's nature on this topic.

I can also know God is good, because I see this teaching in the Bible.

It seems as though your inference is that we cannot know God is Triune through Scripture. Since I am an evangelical and have studied this topic very thoroughly, I would disagree. It is same with the deity of Christ.

Regarding church history, it does carry weight. I am not prideful and realize I stand on the shoulders of other great men throughout church history. Therefore, I consider what has been taught by great men of God in my understanding of Scripture.

 

[dcontroversal]

but your doing exactly what i was talking about. that verse says the "word" was the Most High, not Jesus. Jesus may be the Almighty, its not for me to say, but i would not feel right making that proclamation on an assumption, assuming word means Jesus. and if the purpose of that verse is to teach us that Jesus is the Most High, then why does it not just say that. im not saying He is not.

Are you seriously that obstinate?

And the WORD came to be FLESH and DWELT among us......

I have seriously decided that you just like to argue and oppose the truth........

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Amen.....trying to grasp the full scope of God is akin to a flea trying to comprehend the man that just sprayed it with flea and tick killer.......

To whom shall we liken GOD.........NO ONE!

Re

Amen.....trying to grasp the full scope of God is akin to a flea trying to comprehend the man that just sprayed it with flea and tick killer.......

To whom shall we liken GOD.........NO ONE!

Again, just because we cannot know God exhaustively does not mean that we cannot know that God is Triune. Scripture teaches it, and to deny it is to put one's self on the other side of orthodoxy, as it is a core Christian teaching.

I guess if anyone stands up for core Christian teachings here, they are attacked mercilessly.

Agnosticism concerning core teachings of the faith is not admirable.

 

[Magenta]

but your doing exactly what i was talking about. that verse says the "word" was the Most High, not Jesus. Jesus may be the Almighty, its not for me to say, but i would not feel right making that proclamation on an assumption, assuming word means Jesus. and if the purpose of that verse is to teach us that Jesus is the Most High, then why does it not just say that. im not saying He is not.

The same chapter carries on to say:

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory,
the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

No assumptions have to be made. Denial of Truth does to claim it says otherwise.

 

[CS1]

First of all, I was stating that it seems like he understands the core doctrine of the Trinity, and his issue is one of vocabulary. It seems like he grasps the concept that there is one God yet three Persons. This one God refers to himself in first person, but also refers to himself in second person.

Secondly, I never claimed that anyone can know God fully. One can know that God is Triune, though, because Scripture clearly teaches it. Scripture reveals God's nature on this topic.

It seems as though your inference is that we cannot know God is Triune through Scripture. Since I am an evangelical and have studied this topic very thoroughly, I would disagree.

Please leave your title at the door, and you assume much. Please show me where I said one could not know God through the scriptures? I never did. WE have revelation three ways sir, the general revelation: By what God created roman chapter one tells even the enteral Godhead is known but limited.

2. The special revelation which is the word of God.

3. Illumination from the Holy Spirit through the born again experience. The human intellect is enabled to comprehend the Full Nature of God but we can apprehend enough on this side of living for:

1. righteous living 2. appropriate worship.

 

[jaybird88]

The same chapter carries on to say:

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory,
the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

No assumptions have to be made. Denial of Truth does to claim it says otherwise.

where does it say Jesus is the Most High?

 

[dcontroversal]

Re


Again, just because we cannot know God exhaustively does not mean that we cannot know that God is Triune. Scripture teaches it, and to deny it is to put one's self on the other side of orthodoxy, as it is a core Christian teaching.

I guess if anyone stands up for core Christian teachings here, they are attacked mercilessly.

Agnosticism concerning core teachings of the faith is not admirable.

I have already danced with your idiocy and false accusations once....I will not do it again.....My comment was directed to @CS1 not YOU...and what I said was valid....NOR did I say that we cannot grasp some truths of God's nature and being.....

So.....do me a favor....If you cannot engage me without idiotic accusations like the bolded above....by all means DO NOT ENGAGE ME!!!

 

[jaybird88]

Are you seriously that obstinate?

And the WORD came to be FLESH and DWELT among us......

I have seriously decided that you just like to argue and oppose the truth........

same question to you, why not just say Jesus is the Most High? im not saying He is not, i just dont understand why they will not put that phrase in there, seems strange to me.

 

[CS1]

Re


Again, just because we cannot know God exhaustively does not mean that we cannot know that God is Triune. Scripture teaches it, and to deny it is to put one's self on the other side of orthodoxy, as it is a core Christian teaching.

I guess if anyone stands up for core Christian teachings here, they are attacked mercilessly.

Agnosticism concerning core teachings of the faith is not admirable.

You are building a strawman the concept of the trinity is biblical yet those very men you say you stand shoulders with were humble
and teachers of the word Yet they did as Paul "
"For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified."
1cor 2


And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the [a]testimony of God. 2For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. 4And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of https://biblehub.com/nkjv/1_corinthians/2.htm#footnoteshuman wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.


6However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God [c]ordained before the ages for our glory, 8which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the [d]Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
And Paul continues in chapter 3.

 

[CS1]

where does it say Jesus is the Most High?

did not a devil cried that out mark 5:7

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Please leave your title at the door, and you assume much. Please show me where I said one could not know God through the scriptures? I never did. WE have revelation three ways sir, the general revelation: By what God created roman chapter one tells even the enteral Godhead is known but limited.

2. The special revelation which is the word of God.

3. Illumination from the Holy Spirit through the born again experience. The human intellect is enabled to comprehend the Full Nature of God but we can apprehend enough on this side of living for:

1. righteous living 2. appropriate worship.

No, I will not leave the title "evangelical" at the door. It simply means that I adhere to the core teachings of the faith.

I am not Roman Catholic, and I am not Eastern Orthodox.

By the way, "evangelion" simply means "gospel" and implies that those who are evangelical believe in justification by faith alone, and honor Scripture as authoritative and inspired.

An evangelical is someone who holds those points.

Apparently if one takes a solid stance on core Christian doctrine, they are attacked, but if they are anti-Trinitarian, or deny the deity of Christ, they are considered to be plausible.

 

[CS1]

same question to you, why not just say Jesus is the Most High? im not saying He is not, i just dont understand why they will not put that phrase in there, seems strange to me.

Jesus has many crowns the word of God says
HE is :

the Son of the Most High
Son of God
King of kings
Lord of lords
Son of Man
second Adam
Christ
Messiah
Alpha and Omega

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You are building a strawman the concept of the trinity is biblical yet those very men you say you stand shoulders with were humble
and teachers of the word Yet they did as Paul "
"For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified."
1cor 2


And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the [a]testimony of God. 2For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. 4And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.


6However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God [c]ordained before the ages for our glory, 8which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the [d]Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
And Paul continues in chapter 3.

Have you read a book on church history? How about Luther?

Are you aware of the language he used to confront those who were heretical? Some of his language was actually pretty vulgar.

I don't do that, but I certainly don't hold back from addressing those who deny core Christian doctrine. If you don't answer a fool, he thinks he's right.

Prov 26:4-5
Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.

One reason weird beliefs have proliferated within the Church is due to the refusal to answer such individuals.

Most don't even know enough Scripture or doctrine to answer them anyways so I guess those who do respond to them expose their own lack of diligent study, and they resent it.

 

[jaybird88]

did not a devil cried that out mark 5:7

i thought it said "son of". i did not think the Most High was the son of anyone.