Tricking Satan with Justice...

[Genez]

What I find is taking your time to answer is best,

1 hour could not be enough.
As you can quite often think you could have given a better answer.
Patience works well.

I have a question

You've said God allowed a thorn in your side to teach people.

Ok so that's suggesting God thought you can handle it

Question did you handle it well,

Next question

Do you think testing people to see if there proud is a good thing ?

Thorn in my side?

You have me mistaken with someone else.
I never said that.

 

[Jordon]

Thorn in my side?

You have me mistaken with someone else.

you answers to quickly again

You said God allowed satan to get in your head so that you could teach people

Is that not what you said

 

[Genez]

you answers to quickly again

You said God allowed satan to get in your head so that you could teach people

Is that not what you said

Sounds to me like Satan got into your head if you think that.

 

[Jordon]

Demons have tried.

God allowed for it, so I could have sympathy later on for those who are not aware of what is driving them.

oh I guess you never said God allowed satan to get in your head so you could teach people later on then ?

Looks like your describing a thorn in your side to me.

Plus you said daily talking to God is a good thing but you can't answer about the daily lords prayer

Question

Do you still think that ?

 

[Jordon]

Demons have tried.

God allowed for it, so I could have sympathy later on for those who are not aware of what is driving them.

question how do you tell satan Is driving a person

Do you test to see if there humble first

And then test if there proud second

Or is it the other way round ?

 

[Genez]

oh I guess you never said God allowed satan to get in your head so you could teach people later on then ?

Looks like your describing a thorn in your side to me.

Plus you said daily talking to God is a good thing but you can't answer about the daily lords prayer

Question

Do you still think that ?

You need to learn to differentiate between what a common demon does, and Satan.

Demons are everywhere, and do low level thought jamming when they can.

If you get Satan in your head?
That would be entirely different.

 

[Doll]

.​

​

​

Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Revelation 12:10​

Why does God allow for Satan to do that?

.

God cast Lucifer and 1/3rd of Heavens angels out of Heaven because they rebelled against God. Because Lucifer thought he could be a better God than God.
There are some denominations that supposedly teach Lucifer was cast out only after Jesus resurrected from the tomb.

However,that makes no sense if we first believe Eden's serpent was Lucifer. And Lucifer was on Earth tempting Jesus during his 40 day fast in the desert.

Because all those events would mean God ordered Lucifer to leave Heaven so to do those things on God's behalf.

Rather, God cast Lucifer out after his fall from grace when he lost that war in Heaven. And then let him to be the lord of this world.
Which is how he could tempt Adam and Eve in the garden,and Jesus in the desert.

All still ,even as lord of this world,with God's permission. As we saw in the case of Job.

Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

 

[Jordon]

You need to learn to differentiate between what a common demon does, and Satan.

Demons are everywhere, and do low level thought jamming when they can.

If you get Satan in your head?
That would be entirely different.

still don't an answer to the questions I asked.

All I see is self justification for you answered and another attention to say I have no knowledge.
.
Question

Is this is one your attempts to see if in proud ?

Now if answer in a humble way will this help.

Or how about this.

You need to learn to shut up

 

[Genez]

Rather, God cast Lucifer out after his fall from grace when he lost that war in Heaven. And then let him to be the lord of this world.
Which is how he could tempt Adam and Eve in the garden,and Jesus in the desert.

All still ,even as lord of this world,with God's permission. As we saw in the case of Job.

Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

As we can see from your citing of the book of Job. Satan remains having access to heaven.
Satan commutes to earth and leaves it's running to delegated powers of high ranking demons.
Just like Jesus will be the ruler of earth for the 1000 years reign, yet have his abode found in heaven.

 

[Genez]

still don't an answer to the questions I asked.

All I see is self justification for you answered and another attention to say I have no knowledge.
.
Question

Is this is one your attempts to see if in proud ?

Now if answer in a humble way will this help.

Or how about this.

You need to learn to shut up

For a Brit, you sure speak lousy English.

I can not make sense of what you said here...

Question​

​

Is this is one your attempts to see if in proud ?​

Huh?

 

[Jordon]

For a Brit, you sure speak lousy English.

I can not make sense of what you said here...

Question​

​

Is this is one your attempts to see if in proud ?​

Huh?

I thought you might only answer to the last part,

As you live thinking of your self more highly.

let's see if that can change


Question 1
So satan had a access to heaven full access at the time had he fallen

Question 2 does he still have access

As I've been told by someone a lot very educated than in person
That Satan had access before his rebellion


Question 3 your first post in this threads states and I saw him hurled from heaven

Does it state I saw shim hurled from heaven to accuse brothers day and night.

Question 4 since when do children of God get accused day and night by God ?

Question 5. Have you noticed Jesus doesn't have anything to do with satan what so ever

Question 6

Seeing as your such a good teacher in satan could you answer all these questions

Question 7. What part of scripture that Satan was banished from heaven do you not understand

Question 8 do you realise your glorifying satan

 

[Doll]

As we can see from your citing of the book of Job. Satan remains having access to heaven.
Satan commutes to earth and leaves it's running to delegated powers of high ranking demons.
Just like Jesus will be the ruler of earth for the 1000 years reign, yet have his abode found in heaven.

He's cast out of Heaven but can visit. And serve God when God says so. (Job)

 

[Jordon]

He's cast out of Heaven but can visit. And serve God when God says so. (Job)

doll don't listen to him.


Revalatiion doesn't state when he was cast out of heaven its purely speculative to say other wise which many do.

Not that saying you are.

Just like it's purely speculative to say it was satan in Garden.

In the garden well educated people believe satan, is used as a figurative speech.

The old wise serpent acted like satan.

The serpent was punished to crawl on its belly for ever more.

Satan doesn't crawl on his belly.

That's only part of this nothing unclean is allowed in heaven.

 

[Clayman]

No, we are not in agreement. I think satan and his followers are still in heaven. It says in Revelation that satan accuses the brethren before God continually until he is cast out, which I believe doesn't happen until the trumpets begin to sound.

Just to clarify that I thought the bit we would agree on is that spiritual battle or wrestling match is on earth not in heaven! I knew we disagree on whether Satan or demons have access to heaven.

and I presume have them and the wrestling match on this terrestrial ball.

I just thought that most people have our spiritual battle on earth whether or not they believe Satan has access to heaven. I dont understand how we are to battle in heavenly places literally in Gods dwelling place.

Just something Im now wondering, as I learn how others view things, so a question which is open to any one who believes the angels rebelling in heaven is a future thing, presuming others agree with me for I believe that would then make it 600 million angels in heaven, are they all good sinless angels until the day they decide to rebel in the near future, for example, is there a 33 percent chance Gabriel could decide to side with Satan as the fall hasnt occurred yet?

 

[Clayman]

doll don't listen to him.


Revalatiion doesn't state when he was cast out of heaven its purely speculative to say other wise which many do.

I have to disagree with you there, Revelation states exactly when Satan was cast out of heaven, in fact would it not seem illogical for the complete revelation of Jesus Christ not to reveal when Satan was cast out?

There are two descriptions of the war in heaven in Rev 12, there are not two wars in heaven, but two accounts that give different details of the one and same event. which is a motif of scripture to reveal things in multiple accounts of the same event with different details.

Here is the account with the exact timing of the war in heaven!

Rev 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.

Israel is with Child, the Messiah is about to be born, the woman is under Roman dominion and Mary is about to give birth in a lowly manger, the angels have all seen what has happened and have sent messages to Mary and Joeseph etc


3. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.

Now is the time when Satan ascends above the clouds to the throne in heaven, and the picture shows the dragon who rules over the seven empires of this world.

4. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.

The one third angels sided with Satan and are cast down to earth, now Israel has a problem demons are now on the scene throughout the land tormenting people and now they have a short time, Satan instigates a culling of children under the age of two, a repeat of what happened in Eygpt when Moses was placed in Bullrushes.

5. She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

She bore Jesus who after His resurrection ascended into heaven on clouds and is now seated on His throne.

For me I just believe what it simply says...

 

[Clayman]

How many passages do we see about lions and bears because of their strength over man?

Now, how many do we see about dinosaurs, which should have gained much greater attention by mankind on earth?

Sorry... You have been taught creation by those who fail to understand the Hebrew meaning of Genesis 1:2.

Genesis 1:2
Hebrew= tohu wa bohu - was used by Jeremiah in Jeremiah 4:23, to warn the degenerate Jews of the kind of terrible destruction they were about to face in God's judgment of them!

In Genesis 1:2 we find the earth in utter ruin, having a vast weird emptiness about it, like a haunted house in a horror movie on a dark night.

Those who read Hebrew understood the implication. That is why Jeremiah had to add something after telling the Jews their land would end up in judgment like the earth was in Genesis 1:2.

Jeremiah had to add the verse 27, to let them know that Israel would not become extinct as what Genesis 1:2 implied in the Hebrew!

Here!

23​

I looked at the earth,​

and it was formless and empty;​

and at the heavens,​

and their light was gone. [ Genesis 1:2!]​

24​

I looked at the mountains,​

and they were quaking;​

all the hills were swaying.​

25​

I looked, and there were no people;​

every bird in the sky had flown away.​

26​

I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert;​

all its towns lay in ruins​

before the Lord, before his fierce anger.​

​

27 This is what the Lord says:​

​

“The whole land will be ruined,​

though I will not destroy it completely.​

Note verse 27?

Jeremiah had to tell them they would not end up as the earth had become in Genesis 1:2.
Destroyed completely!

27 This is what the Lord says:​

​

“The whole land will be ruined,​

though I will not destroy it completely.​

We need to learn to concentrate with God's Word!
Or we will end up following fables instead.


grace and peace!

Yes I concede there are not many verses about dinosaurs

15 “Look at Behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16 What strength it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!
17 Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze,
its limbs like rods of iron.
19 It ranks first among the works of God,
yet its Maker can approach it with his sword.
20 The hills bring it their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.
21 Under the lotus plants it lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.
22 The lotuses conceal it in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround it.
23 A raging river does not alarm it;
it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth.
24 Can anyone capture it by the eyes,
or trap it and pierce its nose?

But there are verses, also to my way of thinking middle earth or the most populated areas would have them hunted and killed out the earliest so maybe the decline in population had already occurred by the time of Moses.

Sure knowing Hebrew would be great, but also I think God created all languages including English and English while inferior does not by pure happenstance throw a different shade of light on biblical topics that can also be beneficial for readers.

At least you have a verse for believing what you believe, respect for that but Ive already discussed it with others before and just being honest we will disagree on its meanings.

Do you believe in the full evolutionary model though?

As in was your great* great* grandmother an ape?

 

[Clayman]

Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

I have to admit I find what the translators did here is inexcusable, changing the Word of God should be met with capital offence.

Even though I believe according to Romans 8 that only men can be sons of God and heirs through Christ the Son of God, It does not come into consideration, even those who believe sons of God could be meaning angels should be upset at this for it does not give translators a free license to translate words into different words so people will read what they think it means.

I mean if the verse was translated 1:6 One day Job and the other believers came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them.

Which even though I believe would be accurate and clear up error, I would be livid if they dared changed Gods Word what gives me or anyone the right, I/they could be wrong too. even though I dont think we are

He's cast out of Heaven but can visit. And serve God when God says so. (Job)

So he's not really cast out out of heaven then? My brain has trouble reconciling this blatant contradiction!

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I have to admit I find what the translators did here is inexcusable, changing the Word of God should be met with capital offence.

Even though I believe according to Romans 8 that only men can be sons of God and heirs through Christ the Son of God, It does not come into consideration, even those who believe sons of God could be meaning angels should be upset at this for it does not give translators a free license to translate words into different words so people will read what they think it means.

I mean if the verse was translated 1:6 One day Job and the other believers came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them.

Which even though I believe would be accurate and clear up error, I would be livid if they dared changed Gods Word what gives me or anyone the right, I/they could be wrong too. even though I dont think we are

The reason it says angels instead of sons is because the Greek Septuagint (LXX) says angels of God. So whatever translation that is it came from the LXX.

The Hebrew Masoretic Text (MT) says sons of God, which IMO is a corruption of the original text.

 

[Jordon]

I have to disagree with you there, Revelation states exactly when Satan was cast out of heaven, in fact would it not seem illogical for the complete revelation of Jesus Christ not to reveal when Satan was cast out?

There are two descriptions of the war in heaven in Rev 12, there are not two wars in heaven, but two accounts that give different details of the one and same event. which is a motif of scripture to reveal things in multiple accounts of the same event with different details.

Here is the account with the exact timing of the war in heaven!

Rev 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.

Israel is with Child, the Messiah is about to be born, the woman is under Roman dominion and Mary is about to give birth in a lowly manger, the angels have all seen what has happened and have sent messages to Mary and Joeseph etc


3. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.

Now is the time when Satan ascends above the clouds to the throne in heaven, and the picture shows the dragon who rules over the seven empires of this world.

4. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.

The one third angels sided with Satan and are cast down to earth, now Israel has a problem demons are now on the scene throughout the land tormenting people and now they have a short time, Satan instigates a culling of children under the age of two, a repeat of what happened in Eygpt when Moses was placed in Bullrushes.

5. She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

She bore Jesus who after His resurrection ascended into heaven on clouds and is now seated on His throne.

For me I just believe what it simply says...

I'm not sure completely what your saying, but it looks like saying the point in which satan rebelled in heaven and was cast out was when Mary gave birth To Jesus ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

.​

​

​

Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Revelation 12:10​

Why does God allow for Satan to do that?

.

He doesn’t anymore notice he was accusing them past tense but now as Christ arrives he was cast down and barred from entering again.

think about it until there was a sufficient atonement ……there wasn’t any propitiation for sin. So the accusations were continual even the sacrifices they made under the law were reminders of thier sins being present .

“But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now however

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Instead of an accuser now we have Jesus an intercessor and an advocate for times we’ve failed rather than an accuser

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:31, 34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the accuser isnt there anymore with god accusing us the savior who suffered and died for our sins before God is present with him redeeming and advocating for us speaking our name and claiming us before him though we’ve all fallen short and sometimes still do .

Jesus isn’t accusing us he’s advocating for us and Satan who was accusing man before God was cast down forever.


That’s what his death and resurrection and ascention to the throne was all about .

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

…And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

man allowed Satan to have dominion over them and to accuse them of the sins tbey commit. God had given them the dominion . And the gospel is God solving tbat issue for mankind of then rightly being accused based on the law and what it tells people not to do . Everyone can be rightly accused of a sin theyve commited but only believers in Jesus actually have an atonement and advocate applied to them for the remission of thier sins .