The calvinist definition and my definition is different.
That's why I asked the questions.
And hoped people would give the Calvinistic definition.
Total Depravity
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That's why I asked the questions.
And hoped people would give the Calvinistic definition.
It is true that I don,t support all the beliefs of Calvinism. But I do have good Christian brothers who are in Calvinists......We just disagree.
Regarding the concept of being born guilty of sin, I believe that we are born with a corrupted nature that prevents us from doing good on our own. It’s like an apple on a tree: as long as the apple remains connected to the tree, it stays fresh. However, once the apple is plucked, it inevitably begins to rot. This is analogous to our spiritual state: being severed from God, we are spiritually dead. An infant, like a freshly plucked apple, is not yet rotten or sinful, but due to its corrupted nature, it will eventually decay. There has never been an infant, except for Christ, who has not sinned.
Google ... said.
John Calvin used terms like "total depravity" to mean that, despite the ability of people to outwardly uphold the law, there remained an inward distortion which makes all human actions displeasing to God, whether or not they are outwardly good or bad.
It is not an overstatement to say, that all five points of Calvinism stand or fall on the basis of Total Depravity.
Calvinists believe Total depravity means that natural man is never able to do any good that is fundamentally pleasing to God, and, in fact, does evil all the time.
John Calvin used terms like "total depravity" to mean that, despite the ability of people to outwardly uphold the law, there remained an inward distortion which makes all human actions displeasing to God, whether or not they are outwardly good or bad.
It is not an overstatement to say, that all five points of Calvinism stand or fall on the basis of Total Depravity.
Calvinists believe Total depravity means that natural man is never able to do any good that is fundamentally pleasing to God, and, in fact, does evil all the time.
The corrupted nature is a result of the vine, tree we are connected to.
Adam was corrupted. We can be grafted into the second Adam. Jesus was not guilty of sin.
We are still by nature sinful, but by faith and through grace, Jesus is working to recreate a new heart in us. Justification by faith is a choice. Sanctification by faith is a choice.
The Bible states that "the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness." That's
the awkwardness of your beloved translations' way of saying what you disagree with.
This is a true statement.
God already knows who will reject the Gospel message, so they will indeed "perish" (face eternal damnation) because they rejected the Gospel. But all have the opportunity to either obey the Gospel, or reject it. no one is compelled to be saved.
The cross is central to the Gospel, since without the supreme sacrifice of Christ and His shed blood, there could be no offer of salvation by God. "The cross" is not about the wooden structure, but about the One who was crucified for our redemption.
The Roman Catholic crucifix, with Christ still nailed to the cross is false. The cross should be without anyone on it (if indeed people wish to carry around a cross). As a matter of fact, the Bible says nothing about carrying around a cross (or a crucifix) to show one's spirituality.
Is this according to election?
Nobody is going to believe and obey that which is foolishness to them.
Unbelievers are enemies of God, hostile in their minds toward Him.
Variations of this get said a lot, as if God enabling anyone is forcing them. In fact, it is just one of many logical fallacies put forth.
Might it be that no one seeks Him because they are unaware of HIs grace? Adam hid from Him, after all.
It seems to me that many agree that we are unable to save ourselves. BUT the place were we are disagreeing is the election part.
The Christ can save all vs. Christ can only save the elected.
When does the unbeliever become a believer?
By choice or force?
When I heard about Jesus the truth set me free. The word caused a change in my heart. God wants all to understand His love which is the gospel.
Prophesy is a powerful tool to in helping us to believe.
The love is for all.
It has been an ongoing discussion and back and forths for a number of weeks between a few people in this thread:
Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
It was started in February and is currently 457 pages long with over 9,000 posts. Good luck!
No. It is according to DIVINE FOREKNOWLEDGE.
Firstly, all are unbelievers until they become believers. All were enemies and aliens until they were saved. And secondly those who reject the Gospel are the ones to whom the cross is foolishness. Not to the ones who believe. So what's your point?
God "enables" sinners through (a) the Gospel and (b) the convincing and convicting of the Holy Spirit. But in the end you either believe and obey the Gospel, or you don't.
Exactly it is NOT a proof text that a person is morally incapable of responding to the truth and power of the Gospel message.
Those "who are perishing" are those who decided against the truth of the Gospel message, it in no way means that they could not apprehend the truth of the Gospel only that they reasoned not to accept it as truth.
Some accept and some do not, it really is not rocket science.
Every person is an individual with their own "background/story" and yet no where does scripture teach a person is born morally incapable of responding to the power and truth of the Gospel message.
In fact it affirms the opposite.
But without faith it is impossible to please Him. For he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Hebrews 11:6
What a person becomes is not how they are born. The scriptures teach that mankind, while sinners, may “become hardened” or “grow calloused” (Acts 28:27-28) or “be given over to their desires so as to become defiled” (Rom. 1).
Always enjoy that verse especially with it's last phrase that few seem to speak about
“…from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness…”
(2 Tim. 3:15-16)
The Calvinist begins on the wrong footing when he reads the phrase,
“the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,” and assumes that man’s “unregenerate” nature determined his assessment in such a way that he could not have deemed it otherwise.
God does NOT determine or decree all of mankind to deem His own word as foolish.
That is the free choice* of those depending on “human wisdom” versus those depending on the spiritually wrought truth of “divine revelation.” It is mankind’s responsibility to decide on which to place their trust.
L. Flowers.
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness…”
(2 Tim. 3:15-16)
The Calvinist begins on the wrong footing when he reads the phrase,
“the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,” and assumes that man’s “unregenerate” nature determined his assessment in such a way that he could not have deemed it otherwise.
God does NOT determine or decree all of mankind to deem His own word as foolish.
That is the free choice* of those depending on “human wisdom” versus those depending on the spiritually wrought truth of “divine revelation.” It is mankind’s responsibility to decide on which to place their trust.
L. Flowers.