Torah Observant Christians.

[watcher2013]

1. Your Wrong, the law has everything to do about justification, it proves to all men they are cursed, because cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey ever command

the law is not about obedience. It is about proving to us our sin, and in doing so showing us what must be accomplished to purify sin. (the law of sacrifice

which in turn should lead us to Vhrist (I am guilty and require my curse to be removed)

2. the law brings a curse to Everyone, because no one can keep the law as required. As paul said, before the law I was fine, after the law the commandment came and I died, because the law is what condemns me

3.the law can not tell you how to be obedient, it shows you how, disobedient you are. that’s why ever jot and title will never fail

4.the command said do not do this,

does not tell you how,to,do,this. That’s why it can not tell you how to do hood

all it does ishow you on a root level how disobedient you are


if you are looking to the law and think you are obedient, you do not understand the law

Was cornelius justified because of the law?

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


Is the Law of God the ministration of Death? No.

Is the Law of God the ministration of Condemnation? No.

Is the Law of God something that could be said we are not under any more? No.

These are all descriptions of the 10 commandments AND CANNOT BE the Law of God.


The Law of God gives Life. The Law of God gives Blessings. The Law of God gives Righteousness.

The 10 commandments can do NONE of these things.

-------------------------------------
Here is a blessing from the Ten commandments... Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. Read Psalms 1

Grandpa, you have been impressed with a view that is not scriptural which is blinding you causing you to right things that backfires.

 

[OneOfHis]

--------------------

Questions...

1) A husband and a wife becomes believers (becoming the righteousness of God), down the road the husbands commits adultery, does the husband have to repent from that sin? Yes or No,

2) If YES, why and if NO, why?

3) Do you believe once saved always saved?

4) True, one cannot pluck you out of the Father's hands, but you yourself can, do you agree this statement?

Last question...

5) I think you gave me a thumbs down when it came to talking about the one God, why?

6) Can you give me your view on the trinity, a word I really do not like because as previously stated, it can give the impression of a polytheistic view if not explain correctly.

1.) I have a feeling you and I would disagree on what a believer is.
If that husband is a born again son of God and had a lustful thought (adultery of the heart is the same before God as a 10 year afair if we are speaking of justification before Him.... absolute perfection at every point is the standard) then that husband's new heart and quickened spirit will hate that lust and desire righteousness. He has repented (change of mind) of unbelief and God is working in this man already (change of inner man).

3341. metanoia ►

Strong's Concordance​

metanoia: change of mind, repentance

Original Word: μετάνοια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an'-oy-ah)
Definition: change of mind, repentance
Usage: repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man.
​

2.) It is not a yes or no question if you understand what it means to be born again and pass from death to life as well as understand what the word means. (though if a man could have lust in his heart and not hate it, he ought to examine himself and consider if God started in Him)


3.) Define it. I do indeed understand God will not lose one of His, and all of His are kept by His power.


4.) Nope. That would fall under being kept by the power of man as well as "things to come" separating you from His love. Both are impossible.


5.) Any disagree or dislike I gave you was based either on a false accusation of EG or a false implication of what scripture says. I believe every word of the bible so don't play the silly weak powerless less than genuine game of acting as if someone who disagrees with you "denies" scripture or talks against God.



6.) Jesus is God, always has been. The Holy spirit is God, always has been. The Father is God, always has been. So long as another accepts this as truth I don't care much for going down rabbit holes.

 

[Grandpa]

------------

Who wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stones? Who gave Moses the Ten Commandment? I send you in the past how the Ten Commandments are fulfilled and it appears you have not read it. Read the teacher of the law and Yeshua, two commandments fulfills the Ten Commandments and the teacher of the law was aware of this which is why Yeshua commended him for it.

Thou shalt love God is a commandment, right? Do you love God? Are you working?

Put all this together and be fair in weighing it. When one in impressed with a doctrine it becomes hard for them to weigh fairly what is given to them to read. I told you this many a times, but you continue with as the same question and I am responding to it.

Its funny that you THINK you answer questions and you never do.

Should I ask them again? And again? And again?

Until you finally get around to answering the question?


Or do you think your avoidance of the question is an answer? I suppose it is.

 

[OneOfHis]

Was cornelius justified because of the law?

For by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Its funny that you THINK you answer questions and you never do.

Should I ask them again? And again? And again?

Until you finally get around to answering the question?


Or do you think your avoidance of the question is an answer? I suppose it is.

-----------------

I answered all your statement and question and everyone sees that all you do it repeat yourself.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@SUNDOWNSAM

I have no idea what yu mean about the cross taking the blessings, this makes no sense. We are blessed because of the cross. And everything Jesus did on the cross.

paul wrote about how impossible it is to be justified law in fighting those who proclaim they must add law tojustificatiom

he told them why,

becuase cursed is the one who is not perfect (prety much what he said, obey every word is every word)

he also said that was the purpose of the law.

did paul lie?

i am glad you think the law can not curse you

but what worries me is you think the same law that curses you can make you a morally good person when that was not it’s intended purpose

taking anything out of its intended purpose is damaging, not helpful

by the way do you need help on how to quote, it’s difficult responding to you when I quote you and it comes blank

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I made this clear many times, the law was not giving to justified a man, neither to make man God's righteousness, neither to save man, it was giving to be obedient, the pharisees distorted the word of God. It is clear from the commandment, be OBEDIENCE and blessing will follow, be DISOBEDIENT and curse will follow.

And I made it clear many times iKNOW you believe this.

why is this so difficult for you to comprehend?

It is why we have no root for discussion because you keep thinking I am saying one things when I am saying something else

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok,

so why are you going to the law of sin and death and trying to use it to make you a better person? When that was never its intended purpose?

Can you answer this?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

-------------------------

The law cannot justify a man because it had nothing to do with justifying a man, the faith of Yeshua and in Yeshua which God provided justifies a man.

End of our discussion!

yes end of discussion,

your not listening to a word I said, you are so focused on proving yourself right you keep repeating the same stuff over and over, when I have stated the context of my words is NOt justification b law and how I KnOw you do not believe we are

remember, it’s me who needs to grow up correct?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Was cornelius justified because of the law?

No one was justified because of the law as I. Because they were obedient to the law

its impossible only Christ fulfilled the law

 

[eternally-gratefull]

-----------------

I answered all your statement and question and everyone sees that all you do it repeat yourself.

Yep, just like me

what everyone sees is your refusal to answer because you are not listening to a word we say.

funny how you have the same issue with two people is it not?

 

[Grandpa]

-------------------------------------
Here is a blessing from the Ten commandments... Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. Read Psalms 1

Grandpa, you have been impressed with a view that is not scriptural which is blinding you causing you to right things that backfires.

There are many blessings contained in the 10 commandments. IF YOU COULD DO THEM.

But you can't.

And that is why it is the Ministration of Death. And the Ministration of Condemnation.

Without Christ, you can do nothing.

 

[Grandpa]

-----------------

I answered all your statement and question and everyone sees that all you do it repeat yourself.

If there is a commandment and YOU do it how is that NOT working at it?

The commandment requires you to Love God. If you try really hard to love God aren't you working at that law?


Can you show where you answered these questions and DID NOT avoid these questions?

Because I can show you exactly where you didn't answer these questions but DID avoid them.

 

[watcher2013]

If there is a commandment and YOU do it how is that NOT working at it?

The commandment requires you to Love God. If you try really hard to love God aren't you working at that law?


Can you show where you answered these questions and DID NOT avoid these questions?

Because I can show you exactly where you didn't answer these questions but DID avoid them.

Gentiles dont just kill...
Does that mean gentiles follow the law (torah) about murder?
Rom 2:14-15 KJV 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

1) I mentioned nothing about a lustful heart, I am talking about committing adultery, I should have been specific, I assumed you would have known what I was saying being that I said nothing about committing adultery in the heart, neither am I talking about justification. So, to you, a person that is saved if he commits physical adultery he does not repent of sin, but of unbelief? Yes or No?

Don't give me words, words can be discuss later, I am just asking questions.

2) You are refusing to answer my first question, does he repent from sin and we are not talking about born-again, I already mentioned the person is saved. You are avoiding the question, but I will ask it another way. Can a believer, one who is saved sin? Yes or No?

3) So, you believe once saved always saved correct? Yes or No?

4) So, you believe a person cannot lose his salvation from your statement and that a saved person cannot betray his faith, that is what I gather. Yes or No?

5) You appear to make false accusation toward me probably because you cannot give me a straight answer, but the question I sent you was because I saw a thumbs down on my post on the Godhead. I am probably older than you, and I do not indulge in game playing. I made it clear in many post that I have no problem with anyone disagreeing, our views has nothing to do with salvation, as long as we believe in Yeshua and he's is in our lives we are saved. Is one thing denying the deity of Yeshua is another thing putting on the table once view on a Scriptural doctrine of theology and I would though a person like you would understand my statement. I only call a person a liar when they fabricate a statement that was not made or if they make a falsely accusation.

6) You stated... Jesus is God, always has been. The Holy spirit is God, always has been. The Father is God, always has been. So long as another accepts this as truth I don't care much for going down rabbit holes. So, you agree with my view on the one God? Yes or No.

Let me make myself clear again, I do not play games and I dislike intensely when one loses respect for me especially in a discussion, it is okay to disagree, I have no problem with a disagreement, but let someone tell me I don't know what I am talking about, I will put them in their place.

Respectfully,

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

@SUNDOWNSAM

I have no idea what yu mean about the cross taking the blessings, this makes no sense. We are blessed because of the cross. And everything Jesus did on the cross.

paul wrote about how impossible it is to be justified law in fighting those who proclaim they must add law tojustificatiom

he told them why,

becuase cursed is the one who is not perfect (prety much what he said, obey every word is every word)

he also said that was the purpose of the law.

did paul lie?

i am glad you think the law can not curse you

but what worries me is you think the same law that curses you can make you a morally good person when that was not it’s intended purpose

taking anything out of its intended purpose is damaging, not helpful

by the way do you need help on how to quote, it’s difficult responding to you when I quote you and it comes blank

-------------------

Please carefully read what I said, if obedience to the law results in a blessing and disobedient results in a curse, what did Yeshua take to the cross, the blessing and the curse, or just the curse. If just the curse and we both agree with that, what happens to the blessing is that dissolved? You do not have to respond, you can answer that to yourself.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Ok,

so why are you going to the law of sin and death and trying to use it to make you a better person? When that was never its intended purpose?

Can you answer this?

-----------
Who said I am going to the law of sin and death, is the law of sin and death the same law of the blessing? Again, the curse of the last Yeshua took it to the cross, I am redeemed from the curse because of Yeshua in my life, but if there is blessings in obedience let be me obedient, not that I am looking for blessing, that is a promise God gave and he does not break his promises.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Yep, just like me

what everyone sees is your refusal to answer because you are not listening to a word we say.

funny how you have the same issue with two people is it not?

---------------------

I read everything everyone post and respond accordingly, but those who don't respond is because it will backfire on them.

Question and it is about my 10th time, you have not responded to the story of the teacher of the law and Yeshuah, why?

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

There are many blessings contained in the 10 commandments. IF YOU COULD DO THEM.

But you can't.

And that is why it is the Ministration of Death. And the Ministration of Condemnation.

Without Christ, you can do nothing.

---------------------

So, your God lied and you can trash the book up Psalms in your bible because you do not believe that the laws bring blessing. Meditate on Psalms 1 and you will learn from it.

True that without Yeshua we can do nothing, but with him we can right? So, why can't you be obedient to the law of God? See, you are blinded with your view that it is causing you to make statements that is backfiring. So, before you make a statement make sure it does not backfire.