Are we not to be led in all things? Give what He says to give?
That can be hurtful to the heart if we hold something dear to us.
That can be hurtful to the heart if we hold something dear to us.
Tithing...
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limey410
Guest
Good point. Unfortunately, a great many 'Christians' don't understand the distinction between OT tithing and NT giving, and after conflating the two, they are critical of those who don't believe or practice as they do.
***Pastors live like Levites in the sense they "live" of and by the "temple"***as we give tithes and offerings we strengthen the Church, Missions, the Poor***sounds like the Gospel to me...
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limey410
Guest
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limey410
Guest
The tithe has no place under the new covenant. Giving, yes!!, but giving by the order of the tithe for a Christian living under the new covenant is false teaching, and quite honestly it is spiritual extortion.
I tithe faithfully and sacrificially for 5 years between 2008 to 2013. I sunk deeper into debt and was thinking about bankruptcy. I stop tithing and was able to things around. I now have an emergency savings account, was able to buy a decent car and no longer live paycheck to paycheck. I even saved enough money to replace my furnace this fall! Explain that!
i had a similar experience but was already in debt.
Went to see one of the leaders who helped people in debt.
his advice was take a 3 year deed to tithe gross to the church.
At the end of 3 years my debt multiplied by at least double.
I then felt God say to me, "It's not honouring me by tithing and not paying people what you owe them"
I stopped tithing and started paying of my debt.
In fact one debt was £40,000. My agreement I made would have taken 1,333 months = 111 years to pay off.
Anyway with the help of God that debt was cleared 2 years later.
I would say if someone is in debt to others then it is wrong to tithe.
Yeah, we should all just meet down at a public park somewhere and have no money to help others.
Like it or not, this world in which we live functions on a money system and God's Word has a lot to sat about handling money honorably before the Lord and it's not for hording up like some of these TV preachers that have millions in their bank account just sitting there.
If they were true followers of Jesus, they'd put that money to work reaching the lost and helping folks learn to walk with the Lord.
And yet, Jesus is a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek and Jesus is still receiving tithes (see Hebrews 7 where verse 8 is referring to Jesus of Whom it is witnessed HE LIVES!)
Yes, the New Testament does not contain a direct commandment to tithe, but it is Jesus' will that we tithe since He is still receiving tithes... He doesn't receive things that are not His will.
In Matthew 22:17-21 Jesus indicates there is money the belongs to God.
Also, Jesus says to keep paying tithes…
"But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone." - Luke 11:42, Matthew 23:23
And no, Jesus was not teaching law unto the Jews (see Luke 16:16)
This is exactly why God started tithing to begin with and it's exactly why He still receives tithes today... for people to support His work and those that aren't workin for Him serving the Body of Christ.
Never at starbucks... they are anti-Christian having said and done things publicly to indicate that.
Christians should never support organizations that attack Christianity like starbucks has...
If interested in specifics, search the net as this is well documented.
That's an excellent way to start going broke!
I do not tithe, but I still give. I have a young friend who is going to grad school to become a bible translator. I support her! I also have a support a child through Compassion in Africa. I have a widow that lives next door and I mow her yard and blow her snow for no charge. So as the bible saids I support the widow and the orphan.
Two things: first, you've engaged in eisegesis with regard to Hebrews 7. It makes a comparison of Jesus to Melchizedek, and nowhere even hints that Jesus collects tithes today. I suspect you believe this way because a pro-tithing teacher taught you how to interpret that passage as you do. Further, if you claim that Jesus collects tithes, you must specify which ones. If we tithe as Abraham did, it would be on war spoils only.
Second: Your interpretation of Jesus's words to the Pharisees overlooks the verb tense, "should have". You've interpreted it as "should". They don't mean the same thing. Jesus knew that the old covenant was soon to be eclipsed. If you think that it hasn't been, you need to read Galatians and the rest of Hebrews.
The New Testament teaches giving: according to what we have, regularly, with a cheerful heart, for the needs of others and for the ministry, and sometimes sacrificially. Nowhere does it teach tithing, and they are not the same thing. Further, tithing was not mentioned at the council of Acts 15. Gentile believers, and in fact all believers, are not required to tithe.
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limey410
Guest
Well said. Giving from your heart often times means giving more than the obligatory 10% that is the alleged tithe that these folks talk of. The lack of understanding of why and what the tithe was established for and the misuse of scripture to attempt to collect it is tantamount to extortion.
That's a big problem.
Misunderstanding.
The Apostle Paul said to take care of yourself and your family first so that they will not be a burden to the church.
10 % preachers don't teach those verses.
It's interesting about how we consider a tithe to be giving financially.
Could it taken further?
My wife is a qualified teacher. As of today if she was still a teacher she would be earning £50k plus.
however we had kids, she stayed at home whilst our kids were growing up.
A few years ago we were in a situation where she could go back to teaching with a salary of £35k.
Our church asked her to head up the young kids youth work.
We dicussed it and agreed it was the right way to go.
Her salary is now £7k.
I am an accountant and work as an FD for a company.
However I have helped many a business/person in the church and charged a fraction of what I could do.
In fact with a farmer in deep trouble who I helped. I charged in 10 years less than 1 years charge from their previous accountant.
I am not saying the above to make us look good but in a sense are we giving to God by helping others and his church.
I would like to take it further.
Is tithing just about money?
What about our time, our hours?
I lead a ministry in my church. It means I have to give up my time and walk with others.
Does anyone think that tithing goes beyond giving financially, and can mean not receiving financially but it still helps the church
Could it taken further?
My wife is a qualified teacher. As of today if she was still a teacher she would be earning £50k plus.
however we had kids, she stayed at home whilst our kids were growing up.
A few years ago we were in a situation where she could go back to teaching with a salary of £35k.
Our church asked her to head up the young kids youth work.
We dicussed it and agreed it was the right way to go.
Her salary is now £7k.
I am an accountant and work as an FD for a company.
However I have helped many a business/person in the church and charged a fraction of what I could do.
In fact with a farmer in deep trouble who I helped. I charged in 10 years less than 1 years charge from their previous accountant.
I am not saying the above to make us look good but in a sense are we giving to God by helping others and his church.
I would like to take it further.
Is tithing just about money?
What about our time, our hours?
I lead a ministry in my church. It means I have to give up my time and walk with others.
Does anyone think that tithing goes beyond giving financially, and can mean not receiving financially but it still helps the church
(Proverbs 3:9-10):
Pay tribute to Jesus in all of your affairs. Honor Him with the 'best' of what you make. That way you will prosper to the fullest and have plenty of food to eat and wine to drink.
I totally agree with you.
"Honor the Lord with your wealth".
As Paul says in 1 Timothy 5:8;
"If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever".
Do you provide for your family first or do you provide for the mortgage payment of your church building first?
The People Don’t Respect God
6 The Lord All-Powerful said, “Children honor their fathers. Servants honor their masters. I am your Father, so why don’t you honor me? I am your master, so why don’t you respect me? You priests don’t respect my name.
“But you say, ‘What have we done that shows we don’t respect your name?’
7 “You bring unclean bread to my altar.
“But you ask, ‘What makes that bread unclean?’
“It is unclean because you show no respect for the altar of the Lord. 8 You bring blind animals as sacrifices, and that is wrong. You bring sick and crippled animals for sacrifices, and that is wrong. Try giving those sick animals as a gift to your governor. Would he accept those sick animals? No, he would not accept them.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said.
9 “Now try asking God to be good to you. But he will not listen to you, and it is all your fault.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said.
10 “I wish one of you would close the Temple doors to stop the lighting of useless fires on my altar. I am not pleased with you. I will not accept your gifts.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said.
11 “People all around the world respect my name. All around the world they bring good gifts to me and burn good incense as a gift to me, because my name is important to all of them.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said.
12 “But you people show that you don’t respect my name. You say that the Lord’s altar is unclean. And you don’t like the food from that altar. 13 You smell the food and refuse to eat it. You say it is bad. Then you bring sick, crippled, and hurt animals to me. You try to give sick animals to me as sacrifices, but I will not accept them.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said. 14 “Some people have good, male animals that they could give as sacrifices, but don’t. Some people bring good animals and promise to give those healthy animals to me. But then they secretly exchange those good animals and give me sick animals instead. Bad things will happen to those people. I am the Great King and people all around the world respect me!” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said. Malachi 1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Giving God your leftovers and not making Him FIRST will disconnect you from the Cross. Followers of Jesus Christ can not have one foot in the kingdom and one foot in the world. What is the greatest commandment?
As you have read in Malachi 1, God has said give your Governor your junk and your leftovers. I am a great King!
But seek ye First the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:33
6 The Lord All-Powerful said, “Children honor their fathers. Servants honor their masters. I am your Father, so why don’t you honor me? I am your master, so why don’t you respect me? You priests don’t respect my name.
“But you say, ‘What have we done that shows we don’t respect your name?’
7 “You bring unclean bread to my altar.
“But you ask, ‘What makes that bread unclean?’
“It is unclean because you show no respect for the altar of the Lord. 8 You bring blind animals as sacrifices, and that is wrong. You bring sick and crippled animals for sacrifices, and that is wrong. Try giving those sick animals as a gift to your governor. Would he accept those sick animals? No, he would not accept them.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said.
9 “Now try asking God to be good to you. But he will not listen to you, and it is all your fault.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said.
10 “I wish one of you would close the Temple doors to stop the lighting of useless fires on my altar. I am not pleased with you. I will not accept your gifts.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said.
11 “People all around the world respect my name. All around the world they bring good gifts to me and burn good incense as a gift to me, because my name is important to all of them.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said.
12 “But you people show that you don’t respect my name. You say that the Lord’s altar is unclean. And you don’t like the food from that altar. 13 You smell the food and refuse to eat it. You say it is bad. Then you bring sick, crippled, and hurt animals to me. You try to give sick animals to me as sacrifices, but I will not accept them.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said. 14 “Some people have good, male animals that they could give as sacrifices, but don’t. Some people bring good animals and promise to give those healthy animals to me. But then they secretly exchange those good animals and give me sick animals instead. Bad things will happen to those people. I am the Great King and people all around the world respect me!” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said. Malachi 1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Giving God your leftovers and not making Him FIRST will disconnect you from the Cross. Followers of Jesus Christ can not have one foot in the kingdom and one foot in the world. What is the greatest commandment?
As you have read in Malachi 1, God has said give your Governor your junk and your leftovers. I am a great King!
But seek ye First the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:33
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