Thoughts on the Beginning

[GWH]

2Pet 3:8 with the Lord, a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day.
Rev 22:12 "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done"
Absolutely, for the Lord our whole creation is like a couple la days, and as we grow in Christ like mindedness and begin to think more like God, I think older Christians also begin to see the creation as a couple la days mate.
I like how Enoch prophesied to all those before the flood, not about the coming flood, But about the Lords coming (second coming) to earth in judgment, Adam and the line of Seth would have been well acquainted with and would know the Lords plan which would soon be fulfilled, Adam lived to 900yrs old, nearly a seventh of the the time our creation will be in existence.
Jude :14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones :15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him
I like how you said evolution is evolving, they get to change their theories all the time, showing that the old theories were wrong, yet people think this is totally logical and acceptable practice and still factual. even changing the dates for certain things from 150,000 years to 2 million years. One day science may be honest and correct itself and will line up with God, the ultimate all knowing scientist.

Well, God allowed Jude to be included in the NT, but it is a very minor part.
We sometimes fail to distinguish between hard science that is based on mathematics like mechanical engineering
and the social sciences which are based on mere theories, because it is not possible to conduct experimental proofs,
but all human knowledge is fallible, so humility should be maintained.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Well, God allowed Jude to be included in the NT, but it is a very minor part.
We sometimes fail to distinguish between hard science that is based on mathematics like mechanical engineering
and the social sciences which are based on mere theories, because it is not possible to conduct experimental proofs,
but all human knowledge is fallible, so humility should be maintained.

Agreed. Many people nowadays think if the word science is attached to something then it’s fact. Besides physics and mathematics, there’s not much that can be proven to be 100% factual. Truth is we really know nothing to be 100% fact especially when it comes to distant history. No one truly knows when the earth was created being no one was there just as no one can prove Jesus is God or George Washington was the first US president. Everyone has to take in the evidence themselves and make the decision on their own as to where to put their faith. Sometimes we only see what we want to see so we simply disregard evidence as to not change the direction of our faith. I see many people simply deny scientific evidence because it doesn’t fit with their spiritual beliefs and also those that dismiss spiritual evidence because it doesn’t fit into their atheistic world view.

 

[Howdy]

How do “(temporarily) featureless and without inhabitant” fit?

When we approach the text with our minds full of biases and preconditions, we can’t help but see it through those lenses. Your concept of “perfect” might be hindering your ability to see the God Who actually is.

Are you suggesting God is not perfect?

 

[Omegatime]

I’ve heard many commentaries on the creation of the earth timeline. But I haven’t really heard anything on the theory I lean towards. Would like to get some thoughts on it. I’ll try to make it short. My theory is that “in the beginning” is not referring to our beginning. I think that the earth is old, like very old, and that it is possible that God had other creations on it before the current one that we are a part of. For instance maybe the dinosaurs were part of one of those creations. Possibly as with the flood that creation defied Him also so He sent a meteor down to destroy them. Then day 1 of our time He started preparations for another new creation. What are y’all’s thoughts?

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I would disagree with everything you wrote

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Are you suggesting God is not perfect?

I think he’s saying that your concept of perfect may be flawed. We as flawed human beings could not possibly understand true perfection. Something we may call imperfect, God could call perfect and something that we would call perfect, God would call it imperfect. Without knowing the true 100% nature of God, we cannot know His take on perfection. Look at a forrest for example. One could see complete chaos. There’s no pattern to the trees positionings, heights, or quantities. Another could see perfection because of the lack of pattern. God is the one that defines perfection, not us thankfully. Most of the world calls Him imperfect in a way.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

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I would disagree with everything you wrote

Fair enough. I’m sure that most disagree. What’s your take on it?

 

[Dino246]

Are you suggesting God is not perfect?

I’m not suggesting anything. I said what I said. I think your concept of “perfect” is hindering your ability to understand God as He is.

Set aside your ideas and allow the totality of Scripture to shape your understanding of God.

 

[Jordon]

One should ask the question "Could/would a perfect God create anything that was without form and void"?

well you have to ask what is something void, is it empty, is the void created needing order ?

Maybe the void is a place of emptiness waiting to be filled with something good

It could even be a place in your heart that's sad. as in void of being happy when it needs to be sad.

it could be a void is a space that lacks something. Or even a place of calm.

 

[Inquisitor]

No comment

 

[Omegatime]

Fair enough. I’m sure that most disagree. What’s your take on it?

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I would suggest you do your own Time Line study starting with Genesis 5. Notice also no months or days are given. IMO the Lord has a 7000 year plan to accomplish until eternity. And there were only 76 generations until the Lord's generation which was the 77th.

 

[Dino246]

well you have to ask what is something void, is it empty, is the void created needing order ?

Maybe the void is a place of emptiness waiting to be filled with something good

It could even be a place in your heart that's sad. as in void of being happy when it needs to be sad.

it could be a void is a space that lacks something. Or even a place of calm.

If a void “needed” or waited for” anything, it would cease to be a void.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

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I would suggest you do your own Time Line study starting with Genesis 5. Notice also no months or days are given. IMO the Lord has a 7000 year plan to accomplish until eternity. And there were only 76 generations until the Lord's generation which was the 77th.

I agree with the 7000 give or take a year plan for humanity. But that doesn’t address the creation of the universe itself.

 

[birdie]

I’ve heard many commentaries on the creation of the earth timeline. But I haven’t really heard anything on the theory I lean towards. Would like to get some thoughts on it. I’ll try to make it short. My theory is that “in the beginning” is not referring to our beginning. I think that the earth is old, like very old, and that it is possible that God had other creations on it before the current one that we are a part of. For instance maybe the dinosaurs were part of one of those creations. Possibly as with the flood that creation defied Him also so He sent a meteor down to destroy them. Then day 1 of our time He started preparations for another new creation. What are y’all’s thoughts?

Thanks Just_A_Follower, for your comments and question. I can understand why the phrase 'in the beginning' is in need of definition. After all, God is from everlasting, so what would really be 'in the beginning' for him? I guess God is without beginning. It seems that the rest of the verse from Genesis might help. 'In the beginning' seems to be the time for the creation of heaven and earth. But here's the problem. What does God mean when he talks about the heaven and the earth? Is the earth he is talking about the orb planet we call earth? And is heaven the blue sky continuing into outer space? Many people seem to read the verse that way. I am not so sure that is what is meant. For example, God calls the earth his footstool. He calls heaven his throne. To me, the earth is therefore the place of his rest. And the place of his rest are the persons in Christ. God did all of the work of saving us, and we cannot save ourselves. We only rest in that regard. The Sabbath is a picture of that, since we rest while God does the work on the cross. If we were sinless, we could do the work, but since only Jesus is sinless, he was the only one who could satisfy the demands of the law, to pay its price. So, I see the earth as a picture of the believers. Perhaps Genesis chapter one is about the creation of the believers. After all, we are his creation created in Christ Jesus. Further, the Bible tells us that heaven is God's throne. This may be a way of describing those who have God on the throne, so to speak, in their hearts. So, when the Bible says that the heavens declare the glory of God, it would be a reference to believers declaring the glory of God. That is what believers do. That would also explain why the elect are referred to as heaven, when the Bible says that God gathers his elect from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Thanks Just_A_Follower, for your comments and question. I can understand why the phrase 'in the beginning' is in need of definition. After all, God is from everlasting, so what would really be 'in the beginning' for him? I guess God is without beginning. It seems that the rest of the verse from Genesis might help. 'In the beginning' seems to be the time for the creation of heaven and earth. But here's the problem. What does God mean when he talks about the heaven and the earth? Is the earth he is talking about the orb planet we call earth? And is heaven the blue sky continuing into outer space? Many people seem to read the verse that way. I am not so sure that is what is meant. For example, God calls the earth his footstool. He calls heaven his throne. To me, the earth is therefore the place of his rest. And the place of his rest are the persons in Christ. God did all of the work of saving us, and we cannot save ourselves. We only rest in that regard. The Sabbath is a picture of that, since we rest while God does the work on the cross. If we were sinless, we could do the work, but since only Jesus is sinless, he was the only one who could satisfy the demands of the law, to pay its price. So, I see the earth as a picture of the believers. Perhaps Genesis chapter one is about the creation of the believers. After all, we are his creation created in Christ Jesus. Further, the Bible tells us that heaven is God's throne. This may be a way of describing those who have God on the throne, so to speak, in their hearts. So, when the Bible says that the heavens declare the glory of God, it would be a reference to believers declaring the glory of God. That is what believers do. That would also explain why the elect are referred to as heaven, when the Bible says that God gathers his elect from one end of heaven to the other.

Interesting take. I like it. I may have to do a study through those lenses.

 

[Omegatime]

I agree with the 7000 give or take a year plan for humanity. But that doesn’t address the creation of the universe itself.

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What about what will be??

Isaiah 34:4

All the stars in the sky will be dissolved
and the heavens rolled up like a scroll;
all the starry host will fall
like withered leaves from the vine,
like shriveled figs from the fig tree.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

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What about what will be??

Isaiah 34:4

All the stars in the sky will be dissolved
and the heavens rolled up like a scroll;
all the starry host will fall
like withered leaves from the vine,
like shriveled figs from the fig tree.

That doesn’t address the beginning.

 

[Omegatime]

That doesn’t address the beginning.

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I see this is important to you but for me when Moses was given this information Im sure that if their was a gap it would have been mentioned. No reason for a gap theory unless you think aliens or another earth type environment exists.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

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I see this is important to you but for me when Moses was given this information Im sure that if their was a gap it would have been mentioned. No reason for a gap theory unless you think aliens or another earth type environment exists.

It’s not that important and has no relevance to salvation. I just like to ponder on things. I also like to see what others believe so that I can put on different lenses and study to learn new things. Most of my studies start with the question “what if?” Then I study to find the answer. I am open to learning anything new. The gap theory and apologetics in general help when having conversations with atheists and agnostics which is many of the people I deal with on a day to day basis. When an atheist brings up the dinosaurs or uranium-238 dating, then I should be ready to explain what I believe about the matter and why I have the faith I have. Using scripture for someone who believes scripture is a fairytale doesn’t usually help. You first have to make them question their current beliefs then they can ask the question “what if?”

 

[o-madsen]

How do “(temporarily) featureless and without inhabitant” fit?

When we approach the text with our minds full of biases and preconditions, we can’t help but see it through those lenses. Your concept of “perfect” might be hindering your ability to see the God Who actually is.

As I recall it, the CREATE is in the sense of being perfect and complete, and the word in hebrew should differ a bit from the other verses in genesis 1

 

[Just_A__Follower]

This "all" agrees. It's known as gap theory or pre Adamic creation theory. "In the beginning" refers to the original creation. But the word translated "was", as in formless and empty, can be translated "became".

I believe that the first creation was ruled over by Satan, who was then Lucifer, the light bearer. When he rebelled against God, he was thrown down from heaven. God judged that creation by a world wide flood.

Some say that Isaiah 45:18 confirms this:
"For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens—He is God; He formed the earth and fashioned it; He established it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am the LORD, and there is no other."

Personally, I believe that some dinosaurs were part of God's recreation of the earth. There is no reason why juveniles could not have been on the ark. God's description of Behemoth is an exact description of a now extinct dinosaur.

For a more in depth explanation, you could read "The Mystery of Creation" by Watchman Nee. Larry Ollinson has an excellent series on youtube.

The theory explains the apparent age of the earth compared to the history of man from Adam. I believe that six days means six days in the Genesis account.

Is the theory correct? God knows for sure. It is not a salvation issue. It does offer an explanation to those who can't get their heads around a 6,000 year old earth.

Bought “The Mystery of Creation” half way thru and I having that feeling that I may have subconsciously read this book before. Very interesting so far.