All works of God are by His Holy Spirit from Adam to the final amen.
Thief on the Cross
- Thread starter Wansvic
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Only the uncircumcised men had to get cut off. You said "person", which might imply women had to be circumcised, but that isn't true. Also, they only had to circumcise the foreskin, which again of necessity exempts women.
So who didn't get circumcised, and who was God going to kill? Was Moses uncircumcised, or his son? It was his son who was uncircumcised, but Moses was going to get killed for it. So this doesn't align exactly with the Genesis passage, but does align with the passage where Abraham was made righteous by faith, before his circumcision. In Moses' case, it was Moses who lacked the faith, and therefore was guilty (and going to die), not his son, who was uncircumcised.
Well I have already posted verses showing that brother. If you read the article in post 70, they do a much better job than me.Well then, show me a scripture that confirms that Jesus did indeed go to paradise that day.
Jesus went to set the captives free. That place He went to do that was Hades. There were 2 compartments of Hades. The GOOD side, referred to by Jesus as Abraham's bosom, where Abraham, Samuel, and Remember, Samuel came up from Hades to speak with King Saul. And all the OT saints were held. This could be the "Paradise" OR when Jesus took the thief, and OT Saints to Heaven by setting them free, and the BAD side, where the rich man, those that "welcome" the king of babylon
Isaiah 14:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 “Hell[a] from beneath is excited about you, *** HELL here is Sheol or Hades***
To meet you at your coming;
It stirs up the dead for you,
All the chief ones of the earth;
It has raised up from their thrones
All the kings of the nations.
AND all lost people that CONTINUE to reside there, awaiting final judgement at the Great White Throne judgement.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Um no
It just happened that way to them, Just like God said it would happen to THEM
Eph 1 tells us how the rest are filled with the spirit.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
No baptism, No tongues, Not glory, Just new birth and new life. WHich now opens the door for people to recieve gifting and grow in christ.
The apostles in the upper room were already saved to begin with, They did not get resaved, They just were the first to receive the HS.
Obviously not, or there wouldn't be this passage in the bible.
1 Corinthians 12:28-31 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
just want to add, there is a group in ACTS. 19:2.
He said unto them, 'Have you received The Holy Ghost since you believed?
And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost'.
a personal note, my husband was an 'agnostic' when I met him, but,
God turned him completely around to believe, and so he can't even take 'credit' for believing!LOL,
he had to be 'Super-naturally' shown -
the point is, if we try and put God in a box, it will never work, because, as He says,
we cannot know His thoughts or His ways...it's NOT always 'mass-production' - not saying
that it can't be, just saying that our Saviour works how He wills with whom He wants...
He said unto them, 'Have you received The Holy Ghost since you believed?
And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost'.
a personal note, my husband was an 'agnostic' when I met him, but,
God turned him completely around to believe, and so he can't even take 'credit' for believing!LOL,
he had to be 'Super-naturally' shown -
the point is, if we try and put God in a box, it will never work, because, as He says,
we cannot know His thoughts or His ways...it's NOT always 'mass-production' - not saying
that it can't be, just saying that our Saviour works how He wills with whom He wants...
Jesus sent disciples who performed miracles in the authority of His name while He was still on the earth. Afterward Jesus told them they would do even greater works when the Holy Ghost was put into their bodies:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; BECAUSE I go unto my Father…
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:12-17
In the verses you mention from the Book of Hebrews, Paul is encouraging Christians to not lose sight of the fact that Jesus will indeed return. They are to remain steadfast in faith. Verse 36 refers to the promise that they will receive eternal life in Heaven if they continue in God’s will until Jesus’ return. Verse 37 states the fact, again, that Jesus is coming and in fact His coming will not be delayed; His return will be right on time according to God’s plan.
Paul's comments have nothing to do with the experience of receiving the Holy Ghost as evidenced in Acts 2:1-4, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6.
Paul is talking about different ministry roles, and stating that Christians will not operate in all of the Spiritual gifts. The Holy Ghost uses willing Christians/vessels to flow through to meet particular needs of those present during church services.
Just reiterating your comment about the possibility that the thief was taken to where the OT saints were held.
"And all the OT saints were held. This could be the "Paradise" OR where Jesus took the thief."
New Testament required a Spiritual rebirth according to Jesus:
John 3:5-8
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Acts 2:32-33
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
John 3:5-8
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Acts 2:32-33
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
What about the Gentiles? (Acts 10) How about the disciples in Ephesus? (Acts 19) Paul? (Acts 9) The Samaritans? (Acts 8)
I thought that by referencing the disciples upper room experience, you were making the point that people today are filled with the Holy Ghost with tongues of fire, and speaking in foreign languages. I was just pointing out that such a belief is clearly unscriptural and wrong.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
How about what paul said, Did paul lie? Why would paul say something Hat is not true?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Paul is speaking to born again Christians who believed in Jesus’ sacrifice, and received the Holy Spirit of promise:
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,” Eph 1:13
Peter’s instructions speak directly to the Ephesians scripture. Peter stated that upon belief in Jesus’ sacrifice individuals must repent, and everyone was to be baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sin, and they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
Upon one’s belief in and obedience to the God-given instructions they will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost which is the Holy Spirit of promise.
After giving the specific instructions, Peter states that “…the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:39
The bible records of people receive the Holy Ghost can be found in Acts 2:1-4, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6.
Please provide scriptures that show people receiving the Holy Ghost differently.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yes.
Paul told them HOW they got saved. Just like Jesus told us who is not condemned vs who is condemned. And they agree completely
They also in turn Told us how WE got saved.
So why do you think we get saved a different way?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
It is clear that when the veil was rent the way into the presence of God was opened. The new way indeed was open to all; however, the pouring of Jesus’ blood upon the mercy seat in Heaven was required and did not take place at the time of the crucifixion.
After Jesus bodily resurrection He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to the Father. He instructed Mary to go tell the disciples He had resurrected an that He was ascending to the Father. The biblical record in Hebrews establishes that Jesus did enter with His blood into the holy place obtaining eternal redemption for mankind. (Heb 9:12, 24)
We know that even though the way is open, not all will partake of God's grace by being reborn spiritually and entering into the kingdom of Heaven for eternity. (Matt 7:13-14)
Jesus comment in Mark 16:16 parallels instructions Peter gave at Pentecost: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16)