These two losers?

[Gojira]

the warnings you speak of are against false leaders in the church. what you're doing is using scripture out of context.

i'm not saying make politics your whole life; i don't care for it, m'self. but if every Christian stopped voting or running for office, good grief! it doesn't bear thinking of. that's just surrendering the country.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!

 

[Gojira]

Too bad the early church did not get involved in the politics of the Roman Empire by protesting the misdeeds of the government of that time.

And IF we have fair a free elections if might be worthwhile to vote - that is IF we had someone to vote for that was not corrupt. Trump and Biden both are snakes! I cannot vote for either in good conscience since both are in opposition to the Lord.




If you don't mind, could you worry in my behalf?

I'm not going to be stressed out about this stuff but I see many Christians are off in the political ditch all scared and worried about how politics is continually moving to the far left and godless communism is right ar5ound the corner.

Some claim the only way to fix this nation is for us to have a civil war, so if it comes to that - is this also one of our duties as a Christian to take up arms and start shooting liberals?

I can't see me getting the Lord's leading to lock and load and start shooting people, can you see the Lord leading you to do that?

After all, it might be "good" for the country to clean house, right? Some that say they are Christians are actually saying this.

Jesus touched on this topic!

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight,

Wow... can't argue with that (il)logic and (mis)use of Scripture.

JTB's right about one thing: There's only so far you can go in debates like this. What this serves is to hopefully persuade those on the fence.

 

[Gojira]

Oh I understand. And it's not conflation. I've had many experts over the years tell me I have a unique ability to see relationships and associations where most can't. I'm just trying to share some of that gift, but I understand that's a hard sell.

Gift?

 

[Gojira]

Christians used to follow Christian morals... like not engaging in mammon worship, not cheating workers, not abandoning the poor/sick, like welcoming foreigners, like not being self idolaters, like putting others before themselves, like loving your enemies, like not embracing lies and hypocrisy. Christians used to produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit - like love, joy, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.

It is Christian's abandonment of these principals that has caused our downfall, not the lack of Christians voting, because I can guarantee you we've been voting all along. And it's not working because, once again, we are seeking a worldly solution to a spiritual problem.

And that my friend is something you'll never achieve.

Actually, a lot of Christians are NOT involved, which is part of the problem. Is corruption in the church a problem? Oh yes. We are called to be salt, because salt keeps from rotting. But, the west is rotting because we've ceased to be salt. This is why I also pray for a new great awakening period within the church.

 

[Gojira]

Jesus ceded His Life to the rulers that were against Him.

Does that make Him evil and stupid?

Oh Lord. The logic used here (and in your other posts) just makes me shake my head.

I've made my points. It's up to those on the fence to decide where they stand.

 

[Gojira]

You want an earthly ruler to usher in God's Kingdom

Is that the way the Bible says it's going to happen?

How did that work out for the Jews and their demand for a king?

If you think an earthly ruler will save you from the evil of the world, then you don't really need Jesus to do that, do you?

Show me where I said this. Show me where I implied it.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Wow... can't argue with that (il)logic and (mis)use of Scripture.

Well it's one's opinion if this is the misuse of scripture.

I'd like to see proof from the Bible that the early church were involved in the politics of the Roman empire and were trying to get the Romans to stop slavery and other abuses of the time.

And in the Great Commission, Jesus doesn't seem to be saying anything about getting involved in politics.

Maybe some are called to do that as their gifting. I am not, and it's obviously a waste of time to vote since so many in this nation have because socialists. This nation is pretty much done as we are sliding down hill fast in to complete socialism and Karl Marx said socialism is a stepping stone to communism.

This actually fits bible prophesy when tells us the one world government is coming along with it's leader the anti-christ

I think Christians should be about fulfilling the Great Commission but that's just me. If you believe you are called to get political then that's your deal then.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

They served His purpose, however unwittingly.

Philippians 2:8
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[Susanna]

It's looking like a remaking of the Jimmy Stewart classic is in process, "Mr. Trump goes to Washington."

It might be necessary to rename that one to “Mr. Trump goes to Fed Pen”.

 

[Lynx]

Well it's one's opinion if this is the misuse of scripture.

I'd like to see proof from the Bible that the early church were involved in the politics of the Roman empire and were trying to get the Romans to stop slavery and other abuses of the time.

And in the Great Commission, Jesus doesn't seem to be saying anything about getting involved in politics.

Maybe some are called to do that as their gifting. I am not, and it's obviously a waste of time to vote since so many in this nation have because socialists. This nation is pretty much done as we are sliding down hill fast in to complete socialism and Karl Marx said socialism is a stepping stone to communism.

This actually fits bible prophesy when tells us the one world government is coming along with it's leader the anti-christ

I think Christians should be about fulfilling the Great Commission but that's just me. If you believe you are called to get political then that's your deal then.

I agree... In moderation. We shouldn't get all tore up about politics. It's a waste of high blood pressure.

But we should
Do good
Where we could

On the other hand, they were saying the same thing about "this fits bible prophecy" back in the 70s when it was so popular to rebel. In fact they've said it my whole life.

Shoot, in the party days of the late 20's I bet a lot of Christians were saying it. "All these hedonistic flappers burning their bras and doing all kinds of carnal things... It's a sign of the end times, I tell ya. Jesus probably gonna come back next week, the way things are going."

All I'm saying is, we shouldn't just throw up our hands and resign ourselves to riding out the last few days. We don't know if it'll be another four hundred years before Jesus returns. We should be taking SOME kind of interest in the world around us. You know... just in case Jesus doesn't come back next week.

 

[Mem]

It might be necessary to rename that one to “Mr. Trump goes to Fed Pen”.

lol only in order to appeal to the most wishful thinkers.

 

[Gojira]

Well it's one's opinion if this is the misuse of scripture.

I'd like to see proof from the Bible that the early church were involved in the politics of the Roman empire and were trying to get the Romans to stop slavery and other abuses of the time.

And in the Great Commission, Jesus doesn't seem to be saying anything about getting involved in politics.

Maybe some are called to do that as their gifting. I am not, and it's obviously a waste of time to vote since so many in this nation have because socialists. This nation is pretty much done as we are sliding down hill fast in to complete socialism and Karl Marx said socialism is a stepping stone to communism.

This actually fits bible prophesy when tells us the one world government is coming along with it's leader the anti-christ

I think Christians should be about fulfilling the Great Commission but that's just me. If you believe you are called to get political then that's your deal then.

I addressed the point of christians in the Roman Empire already. It would not have been their place since Rome was a dictatorship used by God to keep Israel down, basically. Israel was under judgement, so no protesting would have helped. In fact, it might have just gotten them killed.

The great commission does not negate political involvement. In fact, the political world can be seen as a mission field, as there are plenty of politicians who need to know the Lord... not to mention a calling from God to enact Godly laws -- which protect and benefit your neighbor, and your descendants.

Christians did not fight in pre-Nazi Germany, and we know what happened. Giving up should never ever be the strategy of the Christian -- unless God orders us to stand down. Until that moment, every area of life we (collectively) should have our fingers in. If we are salt, then we are no good if we are not salting our world. That is not just to minister and make disciples, but in all things bring glory to God, including our secular jobs working for secular bosses, playing sports, driving, going to the movies, you name it.

 

[iamsoandso]

View attachment 259153

Yep they should definitely have a choice on the ballot where we could vote "none of the above keep looking until you find a REAL candidate for POTUS"...Maybe that way in the long list of all the "first to serve" we would actually end up with a real president...

 

[Mem]

@Gojira , were you disagreeing? and if is, with what? or was the x just an expression of dislike. Symbols are just as difficult to understand than the written word.
There are many 'wishing' for this. But if wishes were... nvm, I forget how that saying goes.

I encountered news of Trump's acquittal of the Jan 6 insurrection trial. Was this a valid claim? I don't keep up with the news much.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

But we should
Do good
Where we could

No doubt about that!

On the other hand, they were saying the same thing about "this fits bible prophecy" back in the 70s when it was so popular to rebel. In fact they've said it my whole life.

Shoot, in the party days of the late 20's I bet a lot of Christians were saying it. "All these hedonistic flappers burning their bras and doing all kinds of carnal things... It's a sign of the end times, I tell ya. Jesus probably gonna come back next week, the way things are going."

God's Word addresses this:

2 Peter 3:3 - Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

I addressed the point of christians in the Roman Empire already. It would not have been their place since Rome was a dictatorship used by God to keep Israel down, basically. Israel was under judgement, so no protesting would have helped. In fact, it might have just gotten them killed.

I'm talking about the Christians in the early church - and the Romans killed many of then anyway

The great commission does not negate political involvement.

Where did Jesus or His Apostles require Christians to be concerned about secular politics?

Christians did not fight in pre-Nazi Germany, and we know what happened.

Communism is taking over the world now so should Christians buy a bunch of guns and ammo and start whacking communists? There's plenty of them around!

unless God orders us to stand down.

Where did He ever instruct Christians to take up arms and go kill people to make the world a better place?

i must have missed that in the New Testament.

The fact of the matter is, Christians spend more time being involved in politics than they do winning the lost and making disciples which is the calling of the Body of Christ.

In fact, if we were doing the great commission and correcting all the false doctrine - the Lord would do something about the politics! Since we are not, He is allowing us to have what Israel got back in the day, bad leaders!

Ancient Israel got in to false teachings and God let them go downhill and the same is happening to the US.

To whom much is given much is required - Luke 12:48

 

[Lynx]

Where did He ever instruct Christians to take up arms and go kill people to make the world a better place?

i must have missed that in the New Testament.

Ooh! Ooh! I know that one! Luke 22:35-38. Jesus tells his disciples "Look, remember how I sent you out with no defense to spread the gospel? Well the times are changing and now you'd better have a sword. In fact if you don't have a sword and can't get one, you'd better find something to sell so you CAN get a sword, even if it's selling off your coat."

 

[Lynx]

God's Word addresses this:

2 Peter 3:3 - Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Yeah, I've heard that one all my life too.

That was a cheap shot dude. I never said "Jesus is never coming back."

 

[Gojira]

No doubt about that!






God's Word addresses this:

2 Peter 3:3 - Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.





I'm talking about the Christians in the early church - and the Romans killed many of then anyway




Where did Jesus or His Apostles require Christians to be concerned about secular politics?





Communism is taking over the world now so should Christians buy a bunch of guns and ammo and start whacking communists? There's plenty of them around!





Where did He ever instruct Christians to take up arms and go kill people to make the world a better place?

i must have missed that in the New Testament.

The fact of the matter is, Christians spend more time being involved in politics than they do winning the lost and making disciples which is the calling of the Body of Christ.

In fact, if we were doing the great commission and correcting all the false doctrine - the Lord would do something about the politics! Since we are not, He is allowing us to have what Israel got back in the day, bad leaders!

Ancient Israel got in to false teachings and God let them go downhill and the same is happening to the US.

To whom much is given much is required - Luke 12:48

The early church WAS under the Roman Empire. Seriously??

I never said we should start shooting communists. You're reading into what I said. Do NOT put words into my mouth. Christians could have done much to counter the Nazi movement before it got so powerful.

The great commission does not take politics into account, no. However, the great commission is not the only command we are given. There are many aspects to life we are directed on in scripture. I've made my case about this, and I think you're not looking at Scripture correctly.

Anyway, you're welcome to the last word on this. I've got to agree with JTB on this. I engaged, I fired, I made my points, but with the likes of you, I need to keep making them. I also have to correct your marvelous misreading of what I wrote, and in my opinion, you've misused Scripture. Time to move on.

All I can say to believers like you is is that you had better wake up fast. History is not kind to such.

 

[notmyown]

Fruits of the spirit are not principles.

yes, and plot twist:

they're produced by the Spirit, not by us.

 

[Gojira]

I guess my last thoughts on this will be these...

I've read unbelievable counter-arguments to my points that a) have shown what I believe is a misunderstanding of Scripture, b) have shown an inability to read what has been written without pushing meaning into it to validate their own views, and c) have shown that the side that believes politics is no place for the Christian does not really understand where the other side is coming from.

When they say that politics doesn't save, only Christ does, I say "You're right! And??" They think that we who care about the political realm are really hoping to bring Heaven to earth shows a tremendous lack of proper reasoning on their part. No one I've read in these threads has said that, I never said it, and I never implied it. And yet, this is still what they accuse us of. They do not comprehend what we are saying, which can be due to several causes, none of them flattering.

I'm sorry, but in light of all these errors, the side that says the Christian should not care about politics, all sides are equally bad, they're all sinners and therefore none deserve our support, have clearly not thought their positions all the way through. Rather embarrassing. And, dangerous.

However, as a small concession, there is something to be said for the fact that politics / national pride can become an idol. We are not to be so heavenly-minded that we're no earthly good, JTB, Stan, etc... But, we should not be so concerned about worldly matters that we lose sight of the spiritual and eternal. We all need to seek God for the proper balance.