There will be no Rapture!!!

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Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
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Gods Holy Spirit is not a emotional gravitation my dear brother in Christ. It's not about one being right or one being wrong either but may the work of the Holy Spirit help us both through His continued teaching. 1Corinthians 2:13

Blessings brother music master,
we serve an amazing God.
Why continue to avoid what I stated? Either you did not hear from Holy Spirit that Noah was some sort of image of the rapture, or I am not hearing as I should. Only one of us can be right, but we can both be wrong. I acknowledge that, but you don't seem willing to admit it. That speaks loud volumes to the weaknesses of your position, especially given that you have nothing from scripture by which to verify your claim. That's two strikes...and perhaps we will see the third if you persist in avoidance.

MM
 

JMH

Member
Nov 30, 2024
55
37
18
Why continue to avoid what I stated? Either you did not hear from Holy Spirit that Noah was some sort of image of the rapture, or I am not hearing as I should. Only one of us can be right, but we can both be wrong. I acknowledge that, but you don't seem willing to admit it. That speaks loud volumes to the weaknesses of your position, especially given that you have nothing from scripture by which to verify your claim. That's two strikes...and perhaps we will see the third if you persist in avoidance.

MM
What did Noah need to build the Ark and to move into it with his family? “By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen [such as a global deluge of water], moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith” (Hebrews 11:7). What is faith? It is “the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen” (Hebrews 11:1). It is not faith in what anyone might say, but what God has said!

Today, we have an infinitely greater Ark—the Lord Jesus Christ! He said, “I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved” (John 10:9). Friend, do you know Him as your Savior? Trust Him today.

Brother music master, I assure you there's no weakness in me only Christ Jesus. Perhaps you should pray more to be like Him and less off self. Good day and may God continue to bless us both.
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,178
213
63
What did Noah need to build the Ark and to move into it with his family? “By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen [such as a global deluge of water], moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith” (Hebrews 11:7). What is faith? It is “the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen” (Hebrews 11:1). It is not faith in what anyone might say, but what God has said!

Today, we have an infinitely greater Ark—the Lord Jesus Christ! He said, “I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved” (John 10:9). Friend, do you know Him as your Savior? Trust Him today.

Brother music master, I assure you there's no weakness in me only Christ Jesus. Perhaps you should pray more to be like Him and less off self. Good day and may God continue to bless us both.
This all sounds like it is originating from you personally since you still have not shown, from scripture, the parallel you have drawn.

There will indeed be a rapture of the body of Christ from this earth prior to the tribulation. If that were not the case, then the Bible has lied to us on the basis of what it actually says. Why do I say that?

Simply this:

Ephesians 1:9-14
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

See that? We today are SEALED by Holy Spirit. The antithesis to that is what Jesus spoke to those in Matthew who were under the Kingdom Gospel:

Matthew 10:21-23
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against [their] parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew 24:13-14
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

What Jesus spoke to those people at that time was not meant for us today, just as what Moses wrote of the Law to Israel was not written TO us today.

Many today refuse to observe the difference between being sealed by Holy Spirit unto salvation, and having to endure unto the end to be saved in the future. We have it now, those under the Kingdom Gospel must endure to be saved. Unless one is willing to claim that the Holy Spirit is too weak to seal us absolutely unto salvation, they are not followers of what is stated in scripture.

So, what preacher taught you there is no rapture? If so, why believe such a man who teaches falsehoods that are verifiably false from within the very scriptures I quoted here and many others that exist in Paul's epistles and other writings throughout?

As for me, I'm going with scripture rather than the many false teachings of men.

MM
 

JMH

Member
Nov 30, 2024
55
37
18
This all sounds like it is originating from you personally since you still have not shown, from scripture, the parallel you have drawn.

There will indeed be a rapture of the body of Christ from this earth prior to the tribulation. If that were not the case, then the Bible has lied to us on the basis of what it actually says. Why do I say that?

Simply this:

Ephesians 1:9-14
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

See that? We today are SEALED by Holy Spirit. The antithesis to that is what Jesus spoke to those in Matthew who were under the Kingdom Gospel:

Matthew 10:21-23
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against [their] parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew 24:13-14
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

What Jesus spoke to those people at that time was not meant for us today, just as what Moses wrote of the Law to Israel was not written TO us today.

Many today refuse to observe the difference between being sealed by Holy Spirit unto salvation, and having to endure unto the end to be saved in the future. We have it now, those under the Kingdom Gospel must endure to be saved. Unless one is willing to claim that the Holy Spirit is too weak to seal us absolutely unto salvation, they are not followers of what is stated in scripture.

So, what preacher taught you there is no rapture? If so, why believe such a man who teaches falsehoods that are verifiably false from within the very scriptures I quoted here and many others that exist in Paul's epistles and other writings throughout?

As for me, I'm going with scripture rather than the many false teachings of men.

MM
"There will indeed be a rapture of the body of Christ from this earth prior to the tribulation"
To start; FALSE TEACHING !!, now you make more sense as you are teaching and believing in the heresy of dispensationalism. (Mid 19th century heresy still going strong) hence why Jesus warned us...

Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing..."
 
Nov 1, 2024
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huh? Jesus was going back to heaven. Is that where you are now? Heaven must have really good internet. ;):ROFL:
I guess you're not there

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Ephesians 2:6
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
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Australia
"There will indeed be a rapture of the body of Christ from this earth prior to the tribulation"
To start; FALSE TEACHING !!, now you make more sense as you are teaching and believing in the heresy of dispensationalism. (Mid 19th century heresy still going strong) hence why Jesus warned us...

Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing..."
You only need read the scriptures to see God's dealings with men are different in different times just as a parent deals differently with their children of different ages. Doesn't make the goal different (ie. to come to faith) but the message is conveyed differently to suit the times.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
980
198
43
68
Australia
I guess you're not there

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Ephesians 2:6
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24
That is a positional truth. You are not actually sitting in the heavens yet.

This is the problem when people spiritualize everything and ignore the practicalities.

If what you say were true, then you should also have a resurrection body and no more sin nature.
 
Nov 1, 2024
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That is a positional truth. You are not actually sitting in the heavens yet.

This is the problem when people spiritualize everything and ignore the practicalities.

If what you say were true, then you should also have a resurrection body and no more sin nature.
It's more than positional. That's where my spirit dwells. But getting back to the original point, Jesus told the disciples before he died that he would come back to earth and receive them, which he did in John 20:19. John 14:3 doesn't say he would take them to heaven. The place he prepares for us is the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven to earth

Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. John 20:19
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,178
213
63
"There will indeed be a rapture of the body of Christ from this earth prior to the tribulation"
To start; FALSE TEACHING !!, now you make more sense as you are teaching and believing in the heresy of dispensationalism. (Mid 19th century heresy still going strong) hence why Jesus warned us...

Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing..."
If you can show to me that the Gospel Peter preached in Acts 2 is exactly the same Gospel preached by Paul in places like 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4, then I'd really like to see that. Peter preached the Kingdom Gospel of water baptism unto remission of sins. Paul preached salvation by grace through faith. Those are not the same Gospel message, so if that's heresy, then please put some substance behind your words.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my post #3283 above.

MM
 
Nov 1, 2024
1,192
383
83
If you can show to me that the Gospel Peter preached in Acts 2 is exactly the same Gospel preached by Paul in places like 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4, then I'd really like to see that. Peter preached the Kingdom Gospel of water baptism unto remission of sins. Paul preached salvation by grace through faith. Those are not the same Gospel message, so if that's heresy, then please put some substance behind your words.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my post #3283 above.

MM
I see no reason to think that Peter and Paul proclaimed a different gospel. Peter said during the Jerusalem council that they were saved by grace, as the gentiles were. He was in fact the first to go to the gentiles, so it can be reasonably assumed he proclaimed the same gospel to them that he proclaimed to Jews.

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Acts 15:7-11
Paul describes this same event in Galatians 2 and reveals that he went to Jerusalem to confer with Peter and other leaders in order to determine if he had the gospel right, and wrote that they had nothing to add to it. So the implication is that they were on the same page, and the proceedings of the Jerusalem council bear that out.

Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. Galatians 2:1-2
But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: Galatians 2:6
 

JMH

Member
Nov 30, 2024
55
37
18
This all sounds like it is originating from you personally since you still have not shown, from scripture, the parallel you have drawn.

There will indeed be a rapture of the body of Christ from this earth prior to the tribulation. If that were not the case, then the Bible has lied to us on the basis of what it actually says. Why do I say that?

Simply this:

Ephesians 1:9-14
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

See that? We today are SEALED by Holy Spirit. The antithesis to that is what Jesus spoke to those in Matthew who were under the Kingdom Gospel:

Matthew 10:21-23
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against [their] parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew 24:13-14
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

What Jesus spoke to those people at that time was not meant for us today, just as what Moses wrote of the Law to Israel was not written TO us today.

Many today refuse to observe the difference between being sealed by Holy Spirit unto salvation, and having to endure unto the end to be saved in the future. We have it now, those under the Kingdom Gospel must endure to be saved. Unless one is willing to claim that the Holy Spirit is too weak to seal us absolutely unto salvation, they are not followers of what is stated in scripture.

So, what preacher taught you there is no rapture? If so, why believe such a man who teaches falsehoods that are verifiably false from within the very scriptures I quoted here and many others that exist in Paul's epistles and other writings throughout?

As for me, I'm going with scripture rather than the many false teachings of men.

MM
The Scofield Bible has been called "the most dangerous heresy currently to be found within Christian circles"  
 

JMH

Member
Nov 30, 2024
55
37
18
If you can show to me that the Gospel Peter preached in Acts 2 is exactly the same Gospel preached by Paul in places like 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4, then I'd really like to see that. Peter preached the Kingdom Gospel of water baptism unto remission of sins. Paul preached salvation by grace through faith. Those are not the same Gospel message, so if that's heresy, then please put some substance behind your words.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my post #3283 above.

MM
Moving on brother musicmaster, someone else has explained it quite well for you already.. Blessings.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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The coming of the Lord is soon. The reason why I know this is because of what Jesus said :

Luke 21:25-28
25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

2Peter 3:3-3
Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking,

following after their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”


Many strain a gnat to choke on a camel.


24You [spiritually] blind guides, who strain out a gnat [consuming yourselves with miniscule matters] and swallow a camel [ignoring and violating God’s precepts]!
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,178
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The Scofield Bible has been called "the most dangerous heresy currently to be found within Christian circles"  
I'm not sure what relevance that has to the questions posed to you that you continue to avoid. I use the King James.

So, are you going to answer my questions, or continue to shuck and jive around them in avoidance?

MM
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,178
213
63
Moving on brother musicmaster, someone else has explained it quite well for you already.. Blessings.
And who was that? I have yet to see a legitimate explanation directed to me that you seem to think exists out there some where in the ether. Are you not able to explain your own claims?

MM
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,178
213
63
You hit that right on the head. Some in here love doing their hit-n-run claims without any substantiation, no proof, no discussion over the topic, just blast their silly accusations out into the dark hoping they will hit someone and stick. Mockers they love being, because proving anything takes greater effort than to sit back and claim such silly things such as the dispensations being a recent creation...they don't even know their own Bibles where Paul used that terminology more than once.

MM
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
You hit that right on the head. Some in here love doing their hit-n-run claims without any substantiation, no proof, no discussion over the topic, just blast their silly accusations out into the dark hoping they will hit someone and stick. Mockers they love being, because proving anything takes greater effort than to sit back and claim such silly things such as the dispensations being a recent creation...they don't even know their own Bibles where Paul used that terminology more than once.

MM
I agree
 
Nov 1, 2024
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If you can show to me that the Gospel Peter preached in Acts 2 is exactly the same Gospel preached by Paul in places like 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4, then I'd really like to see that. Peter preached the Kingdom Gospel of water baptism unto remission of sins. Paul preached salvation by grace through faith. Those are not the same Gospel message, so if that's heresy, then please put some substance behind your words.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my post #3283 above.

MM
I see no difference in what they both proclaimed, which was Christ died for remission of sins and was raised from the dead.

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Acts 2:23
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Acts 2:32
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38
 

JMH

Member
Nov 30, 2024
55
37
18
And who was that? I have yet to see a legitimate explanation directed to me that you seem to think exists out there some where in the ether. Are you not able to explain your own claims?

MM
My dear brother musicmaster, what more can the people on this thread help with that you haven't been helped with already?
I can't help you with your dispensationalism my guy but i do know an amazing Holy God who can!

praise Jesus and blessings to you.