There will be no Rapture!!!

[Cameron143]

Ok. So do you see salvation as all encompassing and by that I mean there are no distinctions among groups of believers? iow All believers from all times become a part of the Church?

I think the argument can be made for such a position, but I'm not dogmatic on the subject. I do believe believers have always been saved by grace through faith even when the Messiah's identity was as yet fully revealed. But God did deal with Israel as a national entity for a time and this is unique in all of history. He also seems to be going to save large numbers of Jews at a future date and no other nation has been given such a promise. That said, they are regrafted in which means they are part of the church.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I'm looking forward to the fullness of the Gentiles coming in.

MM

When the fullness of the gentiles enters into the body of Christ the 7th trumpet will blow, the dead will be raised and Christ will come in the clouds of heaven to judge the wicked of the earth. The term originates in Genesis where Jacob blessed Ephraim, his adopted half Egyptian son (Egypt symbolizes the world), foreshadowing God's adoption of a great multitude that no man can number out of all nations. Fullness of gentiles literally means multitude of nations. So in effect, Jacob prophesied that the seed of the firstborn who inherited the promises of Abraham would become a multitude of nations.

And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother [Ephraim] shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a fullness of gentiles. Genesis 48:19​

 

[Musicmaster]

My understanding of the term "fullness of the Gentiles coming in " is a reference to the completion of the Church, not the salvation of all Gentiles, so MM would be around for that (assuming he's alive at the time of the Rapture).

I'm interested in how you both understand that phrase.

There are some schools of thought about this, one of them being that once the world of the Gentiles, the nations, no longer countenance the Gospel, with it having been preached in every nation, no dialect having been left out, then the fullness will have come in.

Whether that happens in my lifetime, given that none of us knows for sure that we will still be in this world tomorrow, I believe it will be soon after having seen the map created be the world missions board and how few areas are left where the Gospel is not known to have been preached and Bibles in their language. The gaps are closing fast.

MM

 

[GWH]

There will be no pre or mid tribulation rapture. This is an invention of the dispensationalists. The Pre-Rapture was invented by the dispensationalist John Darby in the 19th century. It did not exist before that. Church history did not know a Pre-Rapture before the 19th century.

The Bible clearly states that Christians must go through the Tribulation, for Revelation 20:4 describes how Christians will be beheaded for their faith during the Tribulation. If there really was a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, then logically there would be no Christians in the Tribulation, but because there will be Christians in the Tribulation, that means there will be no Pre-Tribulation Rapture! Revelation 13:7 also declares that Christians will be given into the hand of the Antichrist, which means the Antichrist may overcome Christians and kill them.

Jesus will return only once and that is after the tribulation. Then he will gather all Christians.

Well, good. Won't have to worry about my vertigo then. (1THS 4:17 had me concerned :^)

 

[Genez]

I understand the term to refer to the final Gentile being saved.

The final Gentile being saved to be made into the Bride of Christ.

 

[Musicmaster]

The final Gentile being saved to be made into the Bride of Christ.

As the Gentile nations continue to turn against the Gospel, so we draw closer to hearing that last Trump.

MM

 

[Cameron143]

The final Gentile being saved to be made into the Bride of Christ.

Those of Jewish ancestry that are regrafted in...not the bride of Christ?

 

[Genez]

Those of Jewish ancestry that are regrafted in...not the bride of Christ?

All cease being either Jew or Gentile once they are found to be in Christ. ( Galatians 3:28 )

Yet!

Gentiles who are now being saved during the church age?
If they are faithful to mature in grace and truth?
These faithful ones are grafted into the system for God's blessings that the Jews had before the Church age,
and had exclusively enjoyed.

If the part of the dough offered as firs fruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; ​

if the root is holy, so are the branches.​

​

If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, ​

have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from ​

the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. ​

If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. ​

You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” ​

Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. ​

Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, ​

he will not spare you either." Romans 11:16-21​

Christians can not lose their salvation.
But we can lose God's blessings. Blessings that He would bestow upon us (like He had for the Jews)
for those who continue to remain faithful.

In contrast to blessings... those who wander off into false thinking, they will be cut off from God's "nourishing sap"
and will be left to wither and shrivel on the tree. Then, broken off.

grace and peace ..........

 

[Cameron143]

All cease being either Jew or Gentile once they are found to be in Christ. ( Galatians 3:28 )

Yet!

Gentiles who are now being saved during the church age?
If they are faithful to mature in grace and truth?
These faithful ones are grafted into the system for God's blessings that the Jews had before the Church age,
and had exclusively enjoyed.

If the part of the dough offered as firs fruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; ​

if the root is holy, so are the branches.​

​

If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, ​

have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from ​

the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. ​

If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. ​

You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” ​

Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. ​

Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, ​

he will not spare you either." Romans 11:16-21​

Christians can not lose their salvation.
But we can lose God's blessings. Blessings that He would bestow upon us (like He had for the Jews)
for those who continue to remain faithful.

In contrast to blessings... those who wander off into false thinking, they will be cut off from God's "nourishing sap"
and will be left to wither and shrivel on the tree. Then, broken off.

grace and peace ..........

That's a perfectly good answer to a question I never asked.

Ethnic Jews saved now and in the future the bride of Christ?

 

[BobCarabbio]

There will be no Rapture!!!

Unless there is one. (chuckle)

Eschatalogical theologies are like noses. Everybody's got one.

 

[Genez]

Ethnic Jews saved now and in the future the bride of Christ?

I was one.

When in the future?

Church age only. All cease being either Jew or Gentile once they are found to be in Christ. ( Galatians 3:28 )

After the church age....

The Tribulation, and Millennium, will restore the Jews as being their own separate race once more.

 

[TurtleSprings]

There will be no pre or mid tribulation rapture. This is an invention of the dispensationalists. The Pre-Rapture was invented by the dispensationalist John Darby in the 19th century. It did not exist before that. Church history did not know a Pre-Rapture before the 19th century.

The Bible clearly states that Christians must go through the Tribulation, for Revelation 20:4 describes how Christians will be beheaded for their faith during the Tribulation. If there really was a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, then logically there would be no Christians in the Tribulation, but because there will be Christians in the Tribulation, that means there will be no Pre-Tribulation Rapture! Revelation 13:7 also declares that Christians will be given into the hand of the Antichrist, which means the Antichrist may overcome Christians and kill them.

Jesus will return only once and that is after the tribulation. Then he will gather all Christians.

You're completely lost and very confused about the rapture. Maybe you should study to Bible a little bit more. Read some revelations read some of the prophecies that they said back then and then tell me how someone that never knew about the future. Knew the thing they did without the help of god

 

[Cameron143]

I was one.

When in the future?

Church age only. All cease being either Jew or Gentile once they are found to be in Christ. ( Galatians 3:28 )

After the church age....

The Tribulation, and Millennium, will restore the Jews as being their own separate race once more.

Under what covenant?

 

[Genez]

Under what covenant?

I don't know.

 

[Cameron143]

I don't know.

Sure you do. They have to be regrafted in. There is only 1 covenant that does this.

 

[Genez]

Sure you do. They have to be regrafted in. There is only 1 covenant that does this.

Why not ask a different question, so I can answer the one you want answered?

Answer...

Future Jews during the Millennium are not the same covenant of the Church age believer.

 

[Cameron143]

Why not ask a different question, so I can answer the one you want answered?

Answer...

Future Jews during the Millennium are not the same covenant of the Church age believer.

Where do you find this in scripture?

 

[Genez]

Where do you find this in scripture?

You are smarter than I am...

You should be telling me.

 

[Cameron143]

You are smarter than I am...

You should be telling me.

I didn't make the claim. You did. I just asked for the scripture that backs up the claim.

 

[Genez]

I didn't make the claim. You did. I just asked for the scripture that backs up the claim.

Here is what I see...


Jews of the Millennium will inherit the New earth....
And, after the destruction of this present planet, will then inherit the final New earth,
which the Bible calls "the home of righteousness."

As you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. ​

That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by ​

fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping ​

with his promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven ​

and a new earth, the home of righteousness. 2 Peter 3:12-13​

As for us?
We, the Church?
We shall be the Bride of Christ.
Our home will be?
It will not be the New earth as the Millennial Jews will possess.

Our home, will be in Heaven.

Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, ​

and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly ​

things. But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await ​

a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ." Philippians 3:19-20​

That has to be two different covenants.

You decide what to do with that...
I just stated the facts.
Too many argue over covenants as it now is.

grace and peace ..........