There will be no Rapture!!!

[TheDivineWatermark]

The Latin Vulgate is the Bible that used the word rapiemur, meaning, “we shall. be caught up.”

Yes

Today can be your Rapture very well, and take a dirt nap.

Nah. "Rapture" is not defined as death / dying.

You already defined it correctly in the top quote-box.

And our Rapture will take place corporately (it pertains SOLELY TO the corporate BODY of Christ / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]... and will occur in ONE SINGULAR "SNATCH-action"--the entire "ONE BODY" "caught-up" at once)

 

[Genez]

Dear Fellow Body of Christ,

The saddest part of this thread has been that we can see that there are believers amongst us. Believers who will be in Heaven.
That have become so dulled down to God's Word that they can be willing to be used as agents desiring to make comforted
hopeful believers to loose hope.

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in
the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
"Therefore comfort and encourage one another with these words."
​

The saying that misery loves company? ... It is truth!

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in
the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

"Therefore comfort and encourage one another with these words."


​

I might someday write a small book... "The Grinch that stole the Rapture.


grace and peace!

​

 

[Webers.Home]

.

it is literally a "blink and you'll miss it" event.

The rapture should be easily observed all 'round the world if it proceeds as
described in 1Thess 4:13-17 because 2,000 years of deceased believers
from all over the globe added to the world's current believers will likely
result in a flash mob resembling a mini Oort Cloud when they all levitate
together at one time to rendezvous with the Lord up in the sky.

The "blink" element of the rapture pertains to the miraculous transformation
that Jesus' followers will undergo during the event. (1Cor 15:51-52)
_

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I like the word rapture myself, it has seven letters, a significant number in Scripture. It's simple, really. Go to Google Translate and put in "caught up," and in today's Latin, it shows as "raptus." Another significant definition of raptus is "animus exultant" or "soul exulting."
"And my soul shall be joyful in the LORD: it shall rejoice (exult) in his salvation." (Psalm 35:9 KJB)
Blessings

Nice way to put it

 

[Genez]

and you can't discern well :

"demon that causes a person to be lame and confined to a wheel chair...
Can, by mutual agreement, remove itself from that body to make it look like its a healing from God."

The person was not healed of a disease.

A demon was removed that was causing a disorder.
A disorder that appeared to be a DISEASE.

Learn the difference...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The rapture should be easily observed all 'round the world if it proceeds as
described in 1Thess 4:13-17 because 2,000 years of deceased believers
from all over the globe added to the world's current believers will likely
result in a flash mob resembling a mini Oort Cloud when they all levitate
together at one time to rendezvous with the Lord up in the sky.

Our resurrected [and changed] bodies will be like His when He resurrected.
Remember when:

--He was ONLY SEEN by carefully chosen witnesses (not appearing to all people);

--two of those were walking on the Road to Emmaus, when the following happened: "After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country." - Mk16:12;

--He could pass through walls of rooms which had closed doors;

--while sitting down to meal with the two Emmaus-road-walkers, the very evening of His resurrection, it is said of Him, "and He VANISHED out of their sight" - Lk24:31


Given that our resurrected bodies will be like His, I can see how this last point could very well be LIKE how WE will just "disappear" out of sight.

I believe this is also how it is that Paul could (as he did) write about the TWO *distinct* (and OPPOSITE) "beliefs" people WILL BE coming to FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (as he wrote about in the TWO *bookended* sections of 2Th1&2 [2 chpts]--recall I've pointed out that the related phrases "the Day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY" when used in the SAME CONTEXTS throughout Scripture [as they are, also, here in these 2 chpts] always refer to the SAME TIME-PERIOD).

2Th2:10-12 being the BACK / LATTER BOOKEND of these two... and telling of how "God shall SEND TO THEM [to certain ones] strong delusion, SO THAT THEY should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI" (following "our Rapture").


[The other "bookend" (Paul wrote) of that section being the OPPOSITE "belief" ppl will be coming to FOLLOWING "our Rapture"--SAME TIME-PERIOD being referenced by Paul, per the above]

The "blink" element of the rapture pertains to the miraculous transformation
that Jesus' followers will undergo during the event. (1Cor 15:51-52)

There are so many other *elements* to consider though.

 

[sawdust]

.



The rapture should be easily observed all 'round the world if it proceeds as
described in 1Thess 4:13-17 because 2,000 years of deceased believers
from all over the globe added to the world's current believers will likely
result in a flash mob resembling a mini Oort Cloud when they all levitate
together at one time to rendezvous with the Lord up in the sky.

The "blink" element of the rapture pertains to the miraculous transformation
that Jesus' followers will undergo during the event. (1Cor 15:51-52)
_

It seems your perception is only the change of body is in a moment. I see the rising from the dead, moving to the upper atmosphere, meeting with the Lord and having our bodies changed as the complete picture of the resurrection of the Church that will occur in the blink of an eye. The 1 Cor. verses you quoted include the "raising from the dead" as part of the process, not simply the change of body so, I disagree it will be an overtly visible event.

1Cor.15:51-52
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 

[CS1]

On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:22-23

Can you see it now?

grace and patience ....

You can't read.

I asked :


Show me where Jesus or the Apostles healed a person, and the demon came back to make them sick again.

Show me in the New Testament where a demon that was possessing a person left and came back.

The text you provided doesn't say anything about my questions.

 

[CS1]

So let me see if I understand your view... are you saying:

--the "abomination of desolation" (v.15) that they will "see" at a certain point, takes place at the START of the 7 year period?;

--and that, upon their "see[-ing]" this, that those which be in Judea are to "FLEE into the mountains" (v.16) likewise at the START of the 7 year period?




... because v.21 (of that context) says, "FOR *THEN* shall be GREAT tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be"--that is, at the time they "see" the AOD and "flee to the mountains" because of it.

I don't see that as occurring right out of the bat at the START of the 7-year period. The AOD (and that which is associated with it) is/comes at MID-trib (halfway through the 7 years, not at its start).

I will try to be clear and short .

The context of Prophesy in John and Daniel is to forth tell and to foretell. Have a soon-coming event, and the event will happen later in the future.

For John the Apostle was in the tribulation, the early church suffered great Persecution, did they not? Did not the abomination of Desolation happen when the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. That being said I believe from what I see in scripture immediately preceding the taking of the Church those days are the beginning of sorrow and what is known as the Tribulation period. THe word of God states there are bad and very bad with in the context of the Great Tribulation or as Jesus said that the world has never seen.

 

[CS1]

Let me see if I grasp what you're saying.

There are many places that say "Son of man cometh / is coming / shall come / coming of / etc" (speaking of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH [to judge and to reign]);

--so are you suggesting that the phrase "son of man" *means* "that of the flesh" (instead of referring to Jesus, in these texts which state "Son of man cometh / is coming / shall come / coming of / etc") ??

the context of "Son of man" speaks of being a human being, which Jesus was fully as He is God fully.

Man did not become God; God became man. Also, the Son of Man speaks of those from Adam. Yet Jesus is the Second Adam, right?
Jesus is Human, but without the seed of sin or the sinful nature, we all have been born of women through the flesh of fallen man.

 

[CS1]

Yes



Nah. "Rapture" is not defined as death / dying.

You already defined it correctly in the top quote-box.

And our Rapture will take place corporately (it pertains SOLELY TO the corporate BODY of Christ / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]... and will occur in ONE SINGULAR "SNATCH-action"--the entire "ONE BODY" "caught-up" at once)

Yes sir you are correct my point is we are to be ready today

 

[CS1]

The person was not healed of a disease.

A demon was removed that was causing a disorder.
A disorder that appeared to be a DISEASE.

Learn the difference...

LOL, do a study on the word Disease guy. The word means sickness and infirmity, which can be placed on you by an act or afflicted by something or person. If a demon was afflicting a person and they were removed, which caused the affliction, then they were removed. If the demon appeared to leave but did not, then they were never gone, and the affliction remained even if it was not Manifested at that time because they stopped their torment.

If Your home was robbed and the robber left, does that mean you were not robbed?

 

[Webers.Home]

.
The verse below is deliberately misquoted in order to emphasize a point.
Watch for the revision.

"It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spirit body. If there is a natural
body, there is also a spirit body." (1Cor 15:44)

There are of course spirit bodies, e.g. angels and demons. However, the
actual word in the verse above is supposed to be spiritual rather than spirit,
and in some places describes spiritual things that bear absolutely no
resemblance whatsoever to the bodily characteristics of a ghost. For
example:

Spiritual gifts (Rom 1:11)
Spiritual law (Rom 7:14)
Spiritual things (Rom 15:27)
Spiritual people (1Cor 2:15)
Spiritual nourishment (1Cor 10:3)
Spiritual water (1Cor 10:4)
Spiritual rock (1Cor 10:4)
Spiritual counselors (Gal 6:1)
Spiritual blessings (Eph 1:3)
Spiritual music (Eph 5:19)
Spiritual understanding (Col 1:9)
Spiritual housing (1Pet 2:5)
Spiritual sacrifices (1Pet 2:5)

So then the properties of a spiritual body aren't necessarily those of a specter;
especially when it's taken into consideration that Jesus and his followers will be
able to dine upon ordinary foods and beverages.

● Matt 26:29 . . I tell you: I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now
on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom.

● Luke 22:15-16 . . I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you
before I suffer. For I tell you: I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in
the kingdom of God.

● Luke 22:28-30 . .You are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials;
and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant
with me, for a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my
kingdom
_

 

[sawdust]

You can't read.

I asked :


Show me where Jesus or the Apostles healed a person, and the demon came back to make them sick again.

Show me in the New Testament where a demon that was possessing a person left and came back.

The text you provided doesn't say anything about my questions.

Firstly the poster never said anything about Jesus or the apostles healing a person that was possessed. You don't heal people who are possessed, you release them or tell the spirit to go.

And the verse that speaks of demons that leave and return is here.

Luke 11:24
“When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’

What you didn't understand as to why @Genez quoted the verse he did is because in his original post, he spoke of how demons conspire to deceive people by voluntarily leaving their "host" in order to give the appearance that people are healed by the false prophet/teacher. In this way they keep people from the truth, who is Christ.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Firstly the poster never said anything about Jesus or the apostles healing a person that was possessed. You don't heal people who are possessed, you release them or tell the spirit to go.

Agreed.

What you didn't understand as to why @Genez quoted the verse he did is because in his original post, he spoke of how demons conspire to deceive people by voluntarily leaving their "host" in order to give the appearance that people are healed by the false prophet/teacher. In this way they keep people from the truth, who is Christ.

Agreed!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Did not the abomination of Desolation happen when the temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

Here is where many people lose track of the SEQUENCE ISSUES in the Olivet Discourse.

The answer is, NO.

What happened in 70ad were the events spelled out in Luke 21:12-24a,b [with 'c' following on from there]. Meaning, WHEN they "SEE" Jerusalem "COMPASSED WITH ARMIES" (nothing about the AOD here!), they were to "FLEE" (the 70ad "SEE then FLEE" thing).



Verse 12 (of Lk21) tells us of the SEQUENCE, by its saying "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE [BEFORE ALL 'the beginning of birth pangs' that vv.8-11 just spoke of]"... ;
Whereas in Matthew 24, "the beginning of birth pangs" PRECEDE the v.15 "AOD" (which is when "GREAT tribulation" [like Dan12:1,6-7, and v.11--halfway through the Trib yrs] commences [not to mention Rev7:9,14's mention of same]);
Don't conflate this with Lk21:23's "great distress in the land, and wrath upon THIS PEOPLE" (the 70ad events; parallel with Matt22:7's "when the king heard thereof he was WROTH: and he sent forth his armies and BURNED UP THEIR CITY").



"The beginning of birth pangs" (which ARE the SEALS of Rev6) take place AFTER the 70ad events, per Lk21:12's SPECIFIC WORDING telling us so! (and I do not say "immediately after"... No.)
Paul uses the same Greek word (in the singular; the INITIAL 'birth-PANG') to explain that THAT is WHEN "the DOTL" will ARRIVE (and he says it will not "be present" without its star player "the man of sin"--his "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA" 2Th2:9a... corresponding with both Dan11:36 AND Dan9:27a[,26b]--both of which take place BEFORE the MID-trib verses of Dan12:1,6-7 / 9:27b! [which is the commencement of the GREAT tribulation / 2nd HALF of the 7 yrs])

That being said I believe from what I see in scripture immediately preceding the taking of the Church those days are the beginning of sorrow and what is known as the Tribulation period.

"The beginning of birth-PANGS" (of which the FIRST ONE IS: Matt24:4 / Mk13:5's "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' [a certain one BRINGING DECEPTION; i.e. SEAL #1 / the man of sin / AC / Dan9:27a[,26b 'prince THAT SHALL COME'] / "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA"2Th2:9a]" is the START of the 7-yr period.
It does not "immediately precede" our Rapture (as you say), but rather, will immediately FOLLOW "our Rapture".







["GREAT" tribulation speaks ONLY of the 2nd HALF of the "7 yr period"; "great DISTRESS" (Lk21) was the 70ad events]

 

[CS1]

Firstly the poster never said anything about Jesus or the apostles healing a person that was possessed. You don't heal people who are possessed, you release them or tell the spirit to go.

And the verse that speaks of demons that leave and return is here.

Luke 11:24
“When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’

What you didn't understand as to why @Genez quoted the verse he did is because in his original post, he spoke of how demons conspire to deceive people by voluntarily leaving their "host" in order to give the appearance that people are healed by the false prophet/teacher. In this way they keep people from the truth, who is Christ.

can you, as I ASKED, show me where a demon conspires to deceive people by voluntarily leaving their "host" in order to give the appearance that people are healed by the false prophet/teacher.

 

[CS1]

Firstly the poster never said anything about Jesus or the apostles healing a person that was possessed. You don't heal people who are possessed, you release them or tell the spirit to go.

And the verse that speaks of demons that leave and return is here.

Luke 11:24
“When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’

What you didn't understand as to why @Genez quoted the verse he did is because in his original post, he spoke of how demons conspire to deceive people by voluntarily leaving their "host" in order to give the appearance that people are healed by the false prophet/teacher. In this way they keep people from the truth, who is Christ.

Genez said: Post #2,924
A demon that causes a person to be lame and confined to a wheel chair...
Can, by mutual agreement, remove itself from that body to make it look like its a healing from God.

Please don't tell me what Genez said right here.

 

[CS1]

Here is where many people lose track of the SEQUENCE ISSUES in the Olivet Discourse.

The answer is, NO.

What happened in 70ad were the events spelled out in Luke 21:12-24a,b [with 'c' following on from there]. Meaning, WHEN they "SEE" Jerusalem "COMPASSED WITH ARMIES" (nothing about the AOD here!), they were to "FLEE" (the 70ad "SEE then FLEE" thing).



Verse 12 (of Lk21) tells us of the SEQUENCE, by its saying "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE [BEFORE ALL 'the beginning of birth pangs' that vv.8-11 just spoke of]"... ;
Whereas in Matthew 24, "the beginning of birth pangs" PRECEDE the v.15 "AOD" (which is when "GREAT tribulation" [like Dan12:1,6-7, and v.11--halfway through the Trib yrs] commences [not to mention Rev7:9,14's mention of same]);
Don't conflate this with Lk21:23's "great distress in the land, and wrath upon THIS PEOPLE" (the 70ad events; parallel with Matt22:7's "when the king heard thereof he was WROTH: and he sent forth his armies and BURNED UP THEIR CITY").



"The beginning of birth pangs" (which ARE the SEALS of Rev6) take place AFTER the 70ad events, per Lk21:12's SPECIFIC WORDING telling us so! (and I do not say "immediately after"... No.)
Paul uses the same Greek word (in the singular; the INITIAL 'birth-PANG') to explain that THAT is WHEN "the DOTL" will ARRIVE (and he says it will not "be present" without its star player "the man of sin"--his "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA" 2Th2:9a... corresponding with both Dan11:36 AND Dan9:27a[,26b]--both of which take place BEFORE the MID-trib verses of Dan12:1,6-7 / 9:27b! [which is the commencement of the GREAT tribulation / 2nd HALF of the 7 yrs])



"The beginning of birth-PANGS" (of which the FIRST ONE IS: Matt24:4 / Mk13:5's "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' [a certain one BRINGING DECEPTION; i.e. SEAL #1 / the man of sin / AC / Dan9:27a[,26b 'prince THAT SHALL COME'] / "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA"2Th2:9a]" is the START of the 7-yr period.
It does not "immediately precede" our Rapture (as you say), but rather, will immediately FOLLOW "our Rapture".







["GREAT" tribulation speaks ONLY of the 2nd HALF of the "7 yr period"; "great DISTRESS" (Lk21) was the 70ad events]

you do know that Daniel also spoke of this too right?

 

[CS1]

Here is where many people lose track of the SEQUENCE ISSUES in the Olivet Discourse.

The answer is, NO.

What happened in 70ad were the events spelled out in Luke 21:12-24a,b [with 'c' following on from there]. Meaning, WHEN they "SEE" Jerusalem "COMPASSED WITH ARMIES" (nothing about the AOD here!), they were to "FLEE" (the 70ad "SEE then FLEE" thing).



Verse 12 (of Lk21) tells us of the SEQUENCE, by its saying "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE [BEFORE ALL 'the beginning of birth pangs' that vv.8-11 just spoke of]"... ;
Whereas in Matthew 24, "the beginning of birth pangs" PRECEDE the v.15 "AOD" (which is when "GREAT tribulation" [like Dan12:1,6-7, and v.11--halfway through the Trib yrs] commences [not to mention Rev7:9,14's mention of same]);
Don't conflate this with Lk21:23's "great distress in the land, and wrath upon THIS PEOPLE" (the 70ad events; parallel with Matt22:7's "when the king heard thereof he was WROTH: and he sent forth his armies and BURNED UP THEIR CITY").



"The beginning of birth pangs" (which ARE the SEALS of Rev6) take place AFTER the 70ad events, per Lk21:12's SPECIFIC WORDING telling us so! (and I do not say "immediately after"... No.)
Paul uses the same Greek word (in the singular; the INITIAL 'birth-PANG') to explain that THAT is WHEN "the DOTL" will ARRIVE (and he says it will not "be present" without its star player "the man of sin"--his "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA" 2Th2:9a... corresponding with both Dan11:36 AND Dan9:27a[,26b]--both of which take place BEFORE the MID-trib verses of Dan12:1,6-7 / 9:27b! [which is the commencement of the GREAT tribulation / 2nd HALF of the 7 yrs])



"The beginning of birth-PANGS" (of which the FIRST ONE IS: Matt24:4 / Mk13:5's "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' [a certain one BRINGING DECEPTION; i.e. SEAL #1 / the man of sin / AC / Dan9:27a[,26b 'prince THAT SHALL COME'] / "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA"2Th2:9a]" is the START of the 7-yr period.
It does not "immediately precede" our Rapture (as you say), but rather, will immediately FOLLOW "our Rapture".







["GREAT" tribulation speaks ONLY of the 2nd HALF of the "7 yr period"; "great DISTRESS" (Lk21) was the 70ad events]

Ok