I don't believe so. Again.....step 9, 10 & 11 of the Jewish wedding ritual. Thats the point.So what do you believe Matt24:36 is saying, when it says, "But concerning that day and hour, no one knows [perfect indicative], not even the angels of the heavens, nor the Son, except the Father only.:"
Isn't this saying that (at the time Jesus spoke this) the Father "only" is who knows this, but not the Son [up to and at the time spoken]?
In other words, the one knows what the other does not [yet].
Once he was glorified? He knew the day and the hour.
When Jesus said only that Father knows?
He was yet under obligation to be as a man... denying himself of his perfect right to function as God.
Who, though he was eternally existing in the form of God, did not count equality with God
a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in
the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming
obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Philippians 2:6-8
Sorry.....meant ***Feast of Trumpets*** in all cases where the contraction was used.Just a brief comment here (on the bold ^ ).
I am among those who believe that Jesus was born on the Feast of Tabernacles (John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh and TABERNACLED among us")--and was conceived on Hanukkah 1 / Festival of Lights / Feast of Dedication (John 10:22)--but that Tabernacles will also be celebrated / observed ['keep'] in the future MK age (Zech14:16-19--the celebration honoring Him [His "BIRTHday" so to speak]).
Verse 36 I believe is speaking of His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19), per context, and not "our Rapture"... and the "GREAT" trumpet will be sounded at that time (per the parallel passages: Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:9,12-13). I see Rev16:15-16's wording "Behold, *I* come AS A THIEF. [period]" being in the CONTEXT (of wording also) pertaining to the "Armageddon" time-slot (Second Coming / Armageddon time-slot, being precisely when "kings go out to battle"... on a very specific day [of the year], per OT info--and THIS is where the "connection" lies... not necessarily on the FoTr however). IOW, "Behold, I come AS A THIEF" at Armageddon, not for "our Rapture" event.
That's as much as I want to share at this point.
[enjoying the exchanged of ideas, as always]
While I do agree that where Scripture speaks of the marriage (and its related matters), that we should be careful not to interject things about it that are not there.I don't believe so. Again.....step 9, 10 & 11 of the Jewish wedding ritual. Thats the point.
I do not agree that Jesus was saying He did not know as we read the text in Matthew 24:36 . We must read before and after that verse.So what do you believe Matt24:36 is saying, when it says, "But concerning that day and hour, no one knows [perfect indicative], not even the angels of the heavens, nor the Son, except the Father only.:" ?
Isn't this saying that (at the time Jesus spoke this) the Father "only" is who knows this [info], but not the Son [up to and at the time spoken]?
In other words, the one knows what the other does not [yet].
Totally agree. These are bridesmaids. Post rapture bridesmaids.Another being that the "10 Virgins" and the associated "LAMPS LIT" whole thing pertains to US / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY / the BRIDE and "the MARRIAGE" itself (it doesn't).
Amazingly, the (obviously intentional) GROUPING OF THESE STATEMENTS are massively important.I do not agree that Jesus was saying He did not know as we read the text in Matthew 24:36 . We must read before and after that verse.
Starting at verse 15
Jesus is answering three qestion from the disciples and he is telling them what is going to happen in the future of the fall of the temple and many other events. Prophesying to them.
speaking about the Great Tribulation
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
Jesus is going to tell you what to look for so you know When HE comes
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
29 “Immediately after after what? after what happens in verse 27and 28
Then
the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, (what sign ?) (read verse 27& 28 ) and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Oops, Gather HIS elect. Do you mean the Rapture? Well, it's not the Red Sea Crossing, I can tell you that.
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!
34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. FYI (Jesus knows !!!!)
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. ( Jesus Knows)
43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
The Lord Jesus never said HE did not Know He said son of man which means that of the flesh cannot know but the Spirit of God knows all and Jesus had the Spirit of God without Measure therefore HE knows.
Oops, Gather HIS elect. Do you mean the Rapture? Well, it's not the Red Sea Crossing, I can tell you that.
Amazingly, the (obviously intentional) GROUPING OF THESE STATEMENTS are massively important.
Hugely important. And if we fail to comprehend this, we end up in the weeds.
Its a brutally tough study. Chronister nails it though. The man is a genius.
No, He's talking about those in the parallel passage of Isaiah 27:9,12-13 (at the "GREAT" trumpet)... which corresponds with both the wording in Rom11:27 and Dan9:24 [parts], which is about ISRAEL (Israel is who've been judicially "SCATTERED" [and gathered from thence]--not the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY),
...and THEY will be "gathered" (the text states) "ONE by ONE" (not "AS ONE" as WE [the "ONE BODY"] will be!) and by the "angels" that "HE SHALL SEND" to do so (rather than it being "the Lord HIMSELF") and THEY will be gathered to one place upon the earth (the text states) "to worship the Lord in the Holy mount, AT JERUSALEM"). That ain't us.
And it's a completely distinct time-slot from that of "our Rapture".![]()
This event is done in the air and before the Great Tribulation.
Oh I definitely agree. Verse 36 does NOT change or impact the intended context. And Chronister is VERY CLEAR that verse 36 does not change the intended context. As I said earlier:I've not read/listened to Chronister on this point, but I've read others saying the same point basically (re: "grouping of statements")... and I still disagree that the "peri de" issue [v.36] impacts (i.e. CHANGES) the context (which I believe remains entirely about the Trib yrs and Israel and the Gentiles who come to faith as the "guests" FOR the EARTHLY MK age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth... [other than a cpl vv. about 70ad... and about 12 vv. ONLY in Lk12 about same])
[Lk12:36,37,38,40 etc "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... that whole passage thru v.48 or something... is PARALLEL PASSAGE to Matt24:42-51 (in His Olivet Discourse), for one example]
Sorry.....meant ***Feast of Trumpets*** in all cases where the contraction was used.
Definitely not Feast of Tabernacles.
No sir, I believe the great tribulation, which is 7 years, is called the great trib. the actions that happen during that 7 year time frame may be worst than other areas but is all bad[I'm a Pre-tribber... just a reminder]
One question (about your quote ^ ):
--"GREAT tribulation" is ONLY the SECOND HALF of the 7 year period. So are you saying that you are a "MID-trib Rapture" believer? And that we'll be on the earth during the FIRST half? (is that two questions? lol)
first off, can you show me the word of God in the New Testament where a demon did leave a person to convince people into thinking healing was done? Also, show me where Jesus or the Apostles healed a person, and the demon came back to make them sick again.
Show me in the New Testament where a demon that was possessing a person left and came back. Or do the scriptures show us the Years of torment until they were set free? I will wait.
No sir, I believe the great tribulation, which is 7 years, is called the great trib.
the actions that happen during that 7 year time frame may be worst than other areas but is all bad
I like the word rapture myself, it has seven letters, a significant number in Scripture. It's simple, really. Go to Google Translate and put in "caught up," and in today's Latin, it shows as "raptus." Another significant definition of raptus is "animus exultant" or "soul exulting."That means you do believe we will be caught up to Jesus and changed from corrupt to incorrupt within a twinkling of an eye as Paul wrote about.
Good!
The point I am merely saying is the act of being caught up itself is what many call the "Rapture."
So essentially you do believe in the Rapture but you call it like I do as being "Caught Up."
[...] 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
The Lord Jesus never said HE did not Know He said son of man which means that of the flesh cannot know but [...]