There will be no Rapture!!!

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presidente said:
Non sequitur. Your assertion makes no sense. Jesus didn't say in Matthew 24 that the Son of Man would come and that 'Israel' would be gathered. Rather, He speaks of the elect being gathered.
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It's understood. Because Jesus at that time was referring back to what they already knew about, from Isaiah 24:9,12-13 (speaking of "Israel")... regarding when the "great" trumpet will be sounded, and the elect of Israel will be gathered together into one place upon the earth--"to worship the Lord in the holy mount, at Jerusalem"--gathered from the extremities, that is, "from the four winds" to which they had been judicially "scattered" (this is not true of "the Church which is His body" / us).

Please carefully read Matthew 24:29-31 and compare it to both Isaiah 24:9,12-13--"great" trumpet--(coupled with Rom11:27), and Daniel 9:24.

There is no "rapture / snatch / caught up" being spoken of in Matthew 24 or anywhere in His Olivet Discourse.
 

Colossians 1...Jesus Christ, God's elect. We are to put on Jesus Christ.
1 Timothy...elect angels, angels chosen as God's servants to minister
Titus...faith of Jesus Christ, God's elect
Peter and John...Jewish audience, Israel, God's elect nation to serve him

What's the point?
 
TheDivineWatermark said:
It's understood. Because Jesus at that time was referring back to what they already knew about, from Isaiah 24:9,12-13 (speaking of "Israel")... regarding when the "great" trumpet will be sounded, and the elect of Israel will be gathered together into one place upon the earth--"to worship the Lord in the holy mount, at Jerusalem"--gathered from the extremities, that is, "from the four winds" to which they had been judicially "scattered" (this is not true of "the Church which is His body" / us).

Please carefully read Matthew 24:29-31 and compare it to both Isaiah 24:9,12-13--"great" trumpet--(coupled with Rom11:27), and Daniel 9:24.

There is no "rapture / snatch / caught up" being spoken of in Matthew 24 or anywhere in His Olivet Discourse.
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@presidente

My apologies for the typo... should read: "Isaiah 27:9,12-13" (not Isaiah 24)
 
John146 said:
Scripture actually states, "At the last trump..." A trump is the sound a trumpet makes. The last trump is the last sound of a trumpet. This is not a reference to the 7th trumpet in Revelation.
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Amen. Further Scripturally Clarified with:

Since Paul said "last trump" (1Co_15:52), that necessitates, at the least, One
Previous "Trump," Correct? Which Was, for The [ Heavenly ] Body Of Christ:

The First Trump Was The 'Voice Of God': "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?"
(Acts 9:4), Opening The Dispensation Of GRACE, and, Then, Closing This Current Age:

The Voice Of God: "Come UP Hither!" At our Great GRACE Departure,
"Gathering The Body Of Christ TO Himself, for our Judgment In Heaven,
According To The Scriptures of:

"The Revelation Of God's Mystery," and "The Day Of Light!" Amen?

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

Prophecy 'Day Of Darkness' Coming, Gathering/Judgment [ earthly ] Event
(Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation), about the prophesied 'Second Coming,'
with these choices?:

a) [as many think] at the "last [?] trumpet of the seventh angel" (Rev 11:15)?
or

b1) at the "next [last?] trumpet"?:

"Mat_24:31 And He Shall Send His angels with a great sound of a
trumpet, and THEY shall gather together His [ nation of Israel ]
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

b2) for judgment on earth (Mat 25:31-32), Correct?
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Mixing up ( instead of Rightly Dividing ) God's Mystery with His Prophecy
Certainly is Satan's winning tactic in eschatology, eh?

Amen.
 
GRACE_ambassador said:
Since Paul said "last trump" (1Co_15:52), that necessitates, at the least, One
Previous "Trump," Correct? Which Was, for The [ Heavenly ] Body Of Christ:
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Greetings :)
​
Revelation 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.​

These seven angels before the throne of God have been given seven trumpets and they are waiting obediently, waiting for the command to blow them.
 
GRACE_ambassador said:
The First Trump Was The 'Voice Of God': "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?"
(Acts 9:4), Opening The Dispensation Of GRACE, and, Then, Closing This Current Age:
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Here is the First Trumpet of Revelation:
Revelation 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
 
GRACE_ambassador said:
Amen. Further Scripturally Clarified with:

Since Paul said "last trump" (1Co_15:52), that necessitates, at the least, One
Previous "Trump," Correct? Which Was, for The [ Heavenly ] Body Of Christ:

The First Trump Was The 'Voice Of God': "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?"
(Acts 9:4), Opening The Dispensation Of GRACE, and, Then, Closing This Current Age:

The Voice Of God: "Come UP Hither!" At our Great GRACE Departure,
"Gathering The Body Of Christ TO Himself, for our Judgment In Heaven,
According To The Scriptures of:

"The Revelation Of God's Mystery," and "The Day Of Light!" Amen?

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

Prophecy 'Day Of Darkness' Coming, Gathering/Judgment [ earthly ] Event
(Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation), about the prophesied 'Second Coming,'
with these choices?:

a) [as many think] at the "last [?] trumpet of the seventh angel" (Rev 11:15)?
or

b1) at the "next [last?] trumpet"?:

"Mat_24:31 And He Shall Send His angels with a great sound of a
trumpet, and THEY shall gather together His [ nation of Israel ]
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

b2) for judgment on earth (Mat 25:31-32), Correct?
-------------------------------------
Mixing up ( instead of Rightly Dividing ) God's Mystery with His Prophecy
Certainly is Satan's winning tactic in eschatology, eh?

Amen.
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Have you studied the book of Revelation? This post makes no sense.
 
BeeBlessed said:
Have you studied the book of Revelation? This post makes no sense.
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Precious friend, I have read Revelation many times over the decades. Not much
study though, probably due to the Many interpretations of scholarly theologians
who simply Cannot 'agree' with each other? What hope would I, just a simple
student, then have?

I simply stay with God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, where, in my personal
study I did take note of the Differences And Distinctions between two different
events of end-times eschatology:


If this only makes sense to me, then so be it - I will only give account of myself
To The Righteous Judge, Correct?

Amen.
 
GRACE_ambassador said:
Precious friend, I have read Revelation many times over the decades. Not much
study though, probably due to the Many interpretations of scholarly theologians
who simply Cannot 'agree' with each other? What hope would I, just a simple
student, then have?

I simply stay with God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, where, in my personal
study I did take note of the Differences And Distinctions between two different
events of end-times eschatology:


If this only makes sense to me, then so be it - I will only give account of myself
To The Righteous Judge, Correct?

Amen.
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Hello @GRACE_ambassador …. yes, you will give an account only of yourself; however, do you want that account to include leading people astray? We are called to be steadfast. You should know what you believe and why when you post. If you don’t understand something that you believe others are in disagreement about, perhaps it’s better not to add to the confusion. Sadly, you are NOT “rightly dividing” scripture in your posts. In fact, you offer very little scripture, and you skip all over the Bible without bringing any logical thoughts together. Please consider what Peter has to say, and continue prayerfully studying before you make confusing comments.

2 Peter 3: 10-17

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
 
presidente said:
Do you have any evidence that the dead in Christ will rise seven years before the first resurrection when the saints are resurrected as described in the book of Revelation?
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Consider:

1) 1Cor15:22b-23 "...even so in Christ shall [future tense] all be made alive [future tense]; But [conj] each in his own order [/rank]: firstfruit Christ; afterward [EPeita - 'upon-then'] they that are Christ's in his coming. 24 Then [eita - a word with NO 'time-element' attached to it, as EPeita does] the end..." ; Ask yourself why Paul uses the distinct words "EPeita ['upon-then'] and "eita"... and why he feels the need to say, "but each IN HIS OWN ORDER / RANK" if there remains only one at one singular point in time; the "But" connects the contents of verse 23 back to what v.22b had just been talking about: "future" resurrection, not Jesus' past Resurrection (which was what v.20 covered; Verse 23 is not repeating verse 20's info about Jesus);


2) Rev4-5 shows people already wearing "stephanous/crowns"--that which Paul had stated will be awarded "in that day" (not upon his death); and these people are saying "hast redeemed US.... out-of EVERY...." (this is "the Church which His body" having already been caught up, present "before [the face of] God" like 1Th3:13 says--that's the destination that 4:17 is taking us to)... and it is said of them in Rev4-5 that they "shall [future] reign on the earth" and all this is stated BEFORE Jesus will open the first seal that kicks off the 7-year tribulation period (i.e the 70th Week; 2520 days leading up to His Second Coming to the earth), the initial moment of the tribulation period being the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" with its judgments unfolding upon the earth--i.e the trib;


3) "the resurrection the first [adj]" is not saying this is the first moment of resurrection (Rev20:4b-5,6). The same adjective is used when Paul says of himself that he is "the chief [adj] of sinners"... doesn't mean he was the "first" ever (time-wise) of sinners, see. :) (There is "first" in time; and then there's "first" in importance... distinct things.)





All these things and more should be taken into consideration together, rather than viewing one verse as encompassing all there is to know about a matter.
 
presidente said:
Show ne in scripture where it teaches such a thing. Jesus said that He would come again.
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"... and receive you UNTO MYSELF; that where I am, there ye MAY BE ALSO". (John 14:2-4)

If He was talking about "earth" at that time, how would this make sense in the context? They were already "on the earth"... but He was getting ready to ascend to the Father (following the Cross): "I GO TO PREPARE a place for you..."

(which is a distinct thing from when He will say to the Sheep of the nations, "inherit the kingdom HAVING BEEN PREPARED for you from the foundation of the world," note)
 
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Nehemiah6 said:
The Church saints will be in Heaven while the Antichrist rules on earth, and I will be with them.
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Right.

This is not only what 1Th3:13 says, "BEFORE G1715 [the face of] the God and Father of us in the coming [G3952] of the Lord of us with all the saints of Him..."; that is, UP THERE. 1Th4:17 "snatch" is the manner in which we will get there (via "the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR" i.e. at the Rapture point in time); but is also what Rev4-5 SHOWS.

The "was found" word in Rev5:4 informs that a searching judgment has already taken place; the "stephanous/crowns" shows that the awarding of the crowns ("in that day") has already occurred. THEN Jesus will open the first seal (i.e. the first of the birth pangs [Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "a certain one") that kicks off the time period we commonly call the Tribulation period... the arrival of "the man of sin" (rider on wht horse with a BOW, i.e. "deception").





This is the SAME SEQUENCE that 2Th2:3b-8,9a also shows: "our episynagoges UNTO HIM" before the man of sin is "revealed IN HIS TIME" (the DOTL / TRIBULATION PERIOD aspect)
 
"3... that day [from v.2!] will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* [Paul's verse 1 Subject, i.e. our Rapture] and [distinctly/consequently] the man of sin be revealed [Seal #1 at the START of the 7-yr period]..."

At that point, "the DOTL" will indeed be present, to unfold upon the earth with its "judgments" and its "man of sin" doing ALL that he is slated to do over the course of those 7 years...



[same exact SEQUENCE we see also depicted in Rev4-6:2!]
 
TheDivineWatermark said:
"3... that day will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* [Paul's verse 1 Subject, i.e. our Rapture] and [distinctly/consequently] the man of sin be revealed [Seal #1 at the START of the 7-yr period]..."

At that point, "the DOTL" will indeed be present, to unfold upon the earth with its "judgments" and its "man of sin" doing ALL that he is slated to do over the course of those 7 years...
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What did you say?
Your post are very confusing.
 
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21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24 And in her [FUTURE Babylon] was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. KJV

Revelation 19:1-2
19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. KJV

These people are killed, their lives are taken from them, they die, they cease living in the flesh; they are CHRISTIANS; and the events in this Scripture transpire during the Tribulation.
 
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