There will be no Rapture!!!
- Thread starter Romans1012
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
These seven trumpets have NOTHING TO DO with the last trump of the Resurrection/Rapture. Disregard them.
Im not going to disregard the events in Revelation, can you answer my question? WHen is the last of the trumpets in Revelation?
I mean disregard them with reference to "the last trump" in 1 Cor 15. There is no connection. As to the timing of the 7th or last trumpet in that series in Revelation. However this is what is written in Rev 10:7: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. This then connects with Revelation 15:1.
You need to get on track before you’re deceived and it’ll be too late. You better listen up.
This level of allegorical interpretation seems way far-fetched. How could his readers have had a clue what he meant? And I had a look at the Septuagint of Genesis 1:7. If Genesis 2:7 had used ἀέρα, you might have a stronger case for your, IMO, far fetched allegorical interpretation.
Why not say that 'raised' means political revolution, that 'meet' means political meetings? Why just redefine those words allegorically?
Revelation 11:15-18, 15 And the seventh messenger sounded (7th trumpet), and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”16 And the twenty-four elders sitting before Elohim on their thrones fell on their faces and worshipped Elohim, 17 saying, “We give You thanks, O יהוה Ěl Shaddai, the One who is and who was and who is coming, because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 18 “And the nations were enraged, (Psa 2:1) and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead to be judged,..."
"the time of the dead to be judged,"
You are wrong on this brother. the 7th trumpet is the end of the tribulation and the beginning of the wrath of YHWH, also when the dead are raised
that is way it says "last trumpet" because the 7th trumpet in Revelation is the "last trumpet"
Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”
1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”
Revelation 11:15-18, 15 And the seventh messenger sounded (7th trumpet), and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”16 And the twenty-four elders sitting before Elohim on their thrones fell on their faces and worshipped Elohim, 17 saying, “We give You thanks, O יהוה Ěl Shaddai, the One who is and who was and who is coming, because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 18 “And the nations were enraged, (Psa 2:1) and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the reward to Your servants the prophets and to the set-apart ones, and to those who fear Your Name, small and great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”
I completely agree with you only on the basis of the Bible, not people's interpretations of it!
Actually, The Truth Of Scripture Has Three [ A, b, c ] raptures:
Pre- Before "Time Of JACOB's [ ISRAEL's ] Trouble!"
A) The Body Of Christ Departs To Heaven, According To "The
Revelation Of The Mystery! (Romans - Philemon KJV!):
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,
with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and
the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and
remain shall be Caught Up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the
Lord. Wherefore comfort one another With These Words."
(1Th 4:16-18 KJV)
"Behold, I shew you A Mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we
shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead
shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
(1Co 15:51-52 KJV)
+Borrowed From Great GRACE Departure!:
(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” (online):Mid = During "Time Of JACOB's [ ISRAEL's ] Trouble!" (OT, Dan, Mat, Rev)
(b) Two witnesses "ascended ↑ Up ↑ to Heaven" (Rev 11:11-12 KJV), And:
(c) 144,000 "sealed on earth" (Rev 7:4-8 KJV), and then "redeemed
{↑ raptured! } ↑ from ↑ the earth, And found before ↑ The Throne Of God" ↑
{↑ In Heaven! ↑} (14:3-5 KJV)
----------------
More of the 'Rightly Divided' Scriptural Details are Included here:
* Great GRACE Departure!
Amen.
Why seven? I believe the tribulation is 42 months, 3.5 years. As the Jews are facing their time of trouble, the church is facing their judgment of works at the JSOC, and the marriage to the Lamb. When the King returns,he brings his bride with him.
Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection. The church is the gather. The tribulation saints are the gleanings which complete the resurrection.
1 Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
No, I believe that the rapture occurs at the parousia, the coming of Christ, like we read in the 'rapture passage', I Thessalonians 4.
In II Thessalonians 1, Jesus will return when the chuch is going through tribulation. The word translated 'trouble' there is the same Greek word translated 'tribulation.'
Also, in the book of Revelation, people of every nation, tribe, and tongue, come out of the great tribulation. It is not just Israel.
Where does the Bible teach that the church is raptured before the tribulation. That is a big missing piece, a serious problem for pretrib.
Anyone can take some verses and insert an allegorical interpretation and divide things up like that. Can you show many evidence from scripture to back up this interpretation system of yours, particularly the idea that the church will be raptured before the tribulation... as opposed to at the coming of the Lord as indicated in the rapture passage, I Thessalonians 4?
Do you have any evidence that the dead in Christ will rise seven years before the first resurrection when the saints are resurrected as described in the book of Revelation?