The Trinity.

[fredoheaven]

NICE TRY!

but here is what Cyprian was discussing: the Gospel of John 10:30, not 1 John 5.

but nice try making the attempt to slide that past me...


The earliest reference to what might be the Comma appears by the 3rd-century Church father Cyprian (died 258), who in Unity of the Church 1.6 quoted John 10:30: "Again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 'And these three are one.

this quote is actually interesting.

Jesus said, I and the Father are ONE, nothing about the Holy Spirit.
but the RCC Cyprian, forcefully slips, the Holy Spirit into this meaning.
which is NOT what Jesus was saying nor did say at all.

Umm, John 10:30 was about there that is no doubt. But he also was quoting 1 John 5:7 as he wrote, "It is written" as compared with what the "Lord says" of John 10:30.

 

[fredoheaven]

Umm, John 10:30 was about there that is no doubt. But he also was quoting 1 John 5:7 as he wrote, "It is written" as compared with what the "Lord says" of John 10:30.

The fact still remains the same, even the critical text NA28 in its footnote has references to Cyprian.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Umm, John 10:30 was about there that is no doubt. But he also was quoting 1 John 5:7 as he wrote, "It is written" as compared with what the "Lord says" of John 10:30.

no, he writes and states SPECIFICALLY John 10:30

i read it myself!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

The fact still remains the same, even the critical text NA28 in its footnote has references to Cyprian.

the Critical Text, literally comprises of a system of People decided when Jesus said, I and the Father are One, that it should include the Holy Spirit.

So, they're saying Jesus did not know what He was saying, or did not complete a full entire thought.

Yeah, that's WHO i would base the Bible off of....NOT!!

 

[fredoheaven]

Psalms 31:5
KJV_Cambridge(i) 5 Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.

God is the God of Truth! Each person of the triune God is True

The Father
John 7:28
KJV_Cambridge(i) 28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.

John 8:26
KJV_Cambridge(i) 26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

We all know it Jesus was sent by his Father (John 5:30,John 6:57 etc) and Jesus said to his Father is TRUE

The Son/Jesus Christ is truth
John 14:6
KJV_Cambridge(i) 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The Holy Spirit is truth
1 John 5:6
KJV_Cambridge(i) 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

No One is denying any of that ^

what i am denying, is that when Jesus said, I and the FATHER are ONE, Jesus [[[[[[[DID NOT WANT OR NEED OR REQUIRE to include the Holy Spirit]]]]]]]....because HE didn't...He, only included the FATHER!!

 

[fredoheaven]

no, he writes and states SPECIFICALLY John 10:30

i read it myself!

NICE TRY!, There are no "these three are one" in John 10:30 my friend. Notice he said, "The Lord says, quoting specifically John 10:30, then he further wrote " and again" which makes it a conclusive citing 1 John 5:7, quoting the three... are one.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

No One is denying any of that ^

what i am denying, is that when Jesus said, I and the FATHER are ONE, Jesus [[[[[[[DID NOT WANT OR NEED OR REQUIRE to include the Holy Spirit]]]]]]]....because HE didn't...He, only included the FATHER!!

this is IMPORTANT because the JEWS know of the SPIRIT since Genesis 1:2 and Isaiah references the Spirit like many others do.

so the JEWS know about the SPIRIT of GOD.

And when JESUS said, I and the FATHER are ONE, the Jews would know that He did not include the Spirit.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

NICE TRY!, There are no "these three are one" in John 10:30 my friend. Notice he said, "The Lord says, quoting specifically John 10:30, then he further wrote " and again" which makes it a conclusive citing 1 John 5:7, quoting the three... are one.

you can say what you want, but JESUS said, only HE and the FATHER are ONE.
so adding the Holy Spirit, is a man made up thing, because, GOD, never included the Spirit in the Unity of the Father and Son in John 10:30 or ANYWHERE in the Bible.
only man did that...

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

you can say what you want, but JESUS said, only HE and the FATHER are ONE.
so adding the Holy Spirit, is a man made up thing, because, GOD, never included the Spirit in the Unity of the Father and Son in John 10:30 or ANYWHERE in the Bible.
only man did that...

and I TRUST GOD's WORDS over man's any day...

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

i only trust the words of Jesus

 

[fredoheaven]

you can say what you want, but JESUS said, only HE and the FATHER are ONE.
so adding the Holy Spirit, is a man made up thing, because, GOD, never included the Spirit in the Unity of the Father and Son in John 10:30 or ANYWHERE in the Bible.
only man did that...

Okay then, this is a good sign of a good opinion. The Father is truth, Jesus is truth, the Holy Spirit is truth. Is is because Jesus said truth which i am in in much aggreement, that the Holy Spirit is not truth. Am really not getting your idea. Every variant to the text of the scripture must be prove in its context, including patriachal citation. Btw, what i am proving against basically is your timeline am I am sure yours got late.
Even the vaticanus manuscripts gave us hint of this variant reading of the text.
Anyway, the John 10:30 is clear in the context of the Father and Son relationship and speaks more of Christ Diety. The two being distinct persons.

 

[CS1]

1 John 5:7 doesn't teach or prove anything. It is a single verse. It can't be referencing a teaching from elsewhere in the Bible that doesn't exist.

Sound Biblical doctrine demands that a concept be confirmed throughout multiple books of the Bible. Many proponents of the trinity try to use many verses as proof texts of the trinity concept, but they are using them as supposed references to a teaching when that teaching does not exist. Simply put, if the trinity were a legitimate Biblical concept, there would not be any age-old endless debate about it. God would've made it so clear that there would be no question.

The very fact that it is still being argued about today proves that it is completely unsound. The Bible simply contains no teaching anywhere that God is three persons.

You can attack the Theological Concept known as the Trinity yet replace it with your own Theological Concept to explain the Eternal Godhead is hypocritical of you.

God the Father is God seen in the word of God
Jesus is God seen in the word of God.

The Holy Spirit is God seen in the word of God.

All are GOD yet one. If you don't like the term or word, Trinity, ok, but don't come up with your own explanation for the Divine Nature of God, and that says what we all have been saying but agree with the Concept of the Trinity. That is dishonesty.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Anyway, the John 10:30 is clear in the context of the Father and Son relationship and speaks more of Christ Diety. The two being distinct persons.

Agreed, but the Jews have known about the Holy Spirit since Genesis 1:2
if the Holy Spirit is an equal Person of Deity with the Father and Son, Jesus, would have mentioned that.
since the Jews, believe in the Holy Spirit.
in Fact, the Jews, never heard God the Father before, only the Holy Spirit.
So, why Jesus used the Father, instead of the Spirit, speaks Volumes.

 

[Braweh]

Well, the writer is the Holy Spirit and that does not matter at all to you and why should I resume with other scriptures that are also clear, then that wouldn't matter to you again. Your denial of the fact will be another sort of denial if I present another scripture. It's indeed a time waster.

The entire Bible was written by the HS. We, as men, cannot construct an entire doctrine based on just one single verse from Scripture, written by the HS, unless the rest of the book that the HS wrote (the Bible) supports that concept.

It still stands to reason that it makes no difference if the Johannine Comma (1 Jn. 5:7) was written by the HS or by men, it still must adhere to the rules that all doctrine must adhere to.

All sound doctrine is confirmed by definitive teaching in Scripture and supported by other passages elsewhere in the Bible.

The trinity does not stand up to that.

 

[Braweh]

You can attack the Theological Concept known as the Trinity yet replace it with your own Theological Concept to explain the Eternal Godhead is hypocritical of you.

God the Father is God seen in the word of God
Jesus is God seen in the word of God.

The Holy Spirit is God seen in the word of God.

All are GOD yet one. If you don't like the term or word, Trinity, ok, but don't come up with your own explanation for the Divine Nature of God, and that says what we all have been saying but agree with the Concept of the Trinity. That is dishonesty.

All of my theology is not my own, but directly from the Bible.

I'd love it if all Christians could agree and believe the same. They certainly should, we all have the same Bible - basically. It would make life much easier if we all believed the same.

Short of that, I'm happy to correct any and all false teaching as it is very easy to see what aligns with the Scriptures and what does not.

God bless.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The Lord says, "I and the Father are one;" and again it is written of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, "And these three are one."

Umm, John 10:30 was about there that is no doubt. But he also was quoting 1 John 5:7 as he wrote, "It is written" as compared with what the "Lord says" of John 10:30.

That's how I'm reading the quote as well.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Btw, what i am proving against basically is your timeline am I am sure yours got late.

Right.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Holy Spirit IS God the Father and Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit is neither God the Father nor the Lord Jesus Christ. That is very clear from Scripture. So the real question is "Why is there so much opposition to the Holy Trinity?"

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Okay then, this is a good sign of a good opinion. The Father is truth, Jesus is truth, the Holy Spirit is truth. Is is because Jesus said truth which i am in in much aggreement, that the Holy Spirit is not truth. Am really not getting your idea. Every variant to the text of the scripture must be prove in its context, including patriachal citation. Btw, what i am proving against basically is your timeline am I am sure yours got late.
Even the vaticanus manuscripts gave us hint of this variant reading of the text.
Anyway, the John 10:30 is clear in the context of the Father and Son relationship and speaks more of Christ Diety. The two being distinct persons.

actually, you have only made it so i would RESEARCH and discover where the LIE began at.
Thankfully, there's hundreds of Scholars and Theologians who have arrived at the same conclusion:


Thus, a careful distinction needs to be made between the actual text used by Cyprian and his theological interpretations. As Metzger says, the Old Latin text used by Cyprian shows no evidence of this gloss. On the other side of the ledger, however, Cyprian does show evidence of putting a theological spin on 1 John 5:7. In his De catholicae ecclesiae unitate 6, he says, “The Lord says, ‘I and the Father are one’; and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, ‘And these three are one.’” What is evident is that Cyprian’s interpretation of 1 John 5:7 is that the three witnesses refer to the Trinity.

basically, the J. COMMA NEVER existed, but Cyprian took it upon himself to include the Trinity in Jesus Statement of [I and the Father are ONE].

like i said, the J. Comma, is a MYTH that NEVER was Inspired by God to be include into the Holy Canon.