The tree of knowledge of good and evil

[Webers.Home]

How can "all the world" mean anything less than "all the world"?

When Rom 3:19 is interpreted in context with Rom 3:9-20, it's readily seen that the "the whole world" isn't talking about every person on Earth, rather, it's talking about every nationality on Earth. For example: a Canadian sinner has no advantage over an Australian sinner; nor an Israeli sinner over an Arab sinner, nor a Mexican sinner over a Zimbabwe sinner.

In other words; the indictment is very broad rather than personal; and most certainly does not condemn underage children and mentally challenged folk because the wording of the indictment assumes a high enough degree of intelligence for people to know what they're doing.
_

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

38 Now it happened as they went that He entered a certain village; and a certain woman named Martha welcomed Him into her house. 39 And she had a sister called Mary, who also sat at Jesus’ feet and heard His word. 40 But Martha was distracted with much serving, and she approached Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Therefore tell her to help me.” 41 And Jesus answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things. 42 But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taken away from her.” Luke 10

Note: Martha had a physical relationship with Christ, in serving Him, while Mary had a Spiritual relationship by hearing and worshiping Him. Martha was doing a good thing, but it was not the best thing. We learn that one can be very much involved in the Work of the Lord, and little involved in Worship of the Lord. However, the Lord is much more concerned about the Worker than the Work. If the Worker is right, the Work will be right as well!

There are many hidden traps and snares (the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) in this life due to the fall of Adam. This is why the scriptures says, "There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death (Proverbs 14:12, 16:25)."

The only way the Believer can walk in the Spirit is by placing and maintaining their Faith exclusively in Christ (who He is) and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won (what He has done), i.e., The Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus. (Romans 8:2)

If it's done in the flesh, it will consume the person, i.e., "the bush"; however, if it's done by the Power of the Holy Spirit, the bush will burn and not be consumed (Exodus 3:2, Romans 8:2).

 

[beta]

I think there are a lot of good points made in all the replies and one day we will be able to tie them all together....correctly !

 

[Daniel_Hoseiny]

It's a literal tree of knowledge. Who is that tree? Me and you and every human being. We are that tree. There was also another tree in the center of the garden of Eden called the tree of Life. Who is that tree? Christ! God said: from the moment you eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil surely you shall die. The day you rely on yourself, my child, your beginning will be good and your end evil (Mar Mari Emmanuel).

 

[Godswilling]

We do not inherit Adam and Eve's sin, original sin, for that is their sin, and everybody will bear their own sin.

It would of not entered Adam and Eve's mind to sin unless an outside source tempted them, so God allowed Satan to tempt Eve and she sinned, and then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him she did not die, and no harm came to her.

When they sinned then they had a choice between good and evil, so all their offspring will have a choice between good and evil, so we are born not knowing God, so we will sin before we come to God and repent of our sins, so all are sinners that have fallen short of the grace of God.

But we are born innocent with no sin on our record, which is why the Bible says the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones, for they are protected spiritually when they do not have any sin on their record.

But we will sin before we come to God and repent of our sins.

But it is not our fault for our condition of being born not knowing God, and sinning, for we could do nothing about it, but there is no excuse because we still have to do right and not wrong when we know right from wrong.

Lucifer was created perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him, so the angels had a choice, and Lucifer and some of the angels rebelled, and Lucifer's name became Satan to identify with his new identity, and they became known as devils.

The angels that are with God now cannot sin, for they stayed with God so they do not have a choice, but only see the ways of God like the saints when they are with Jesus will not have a choice anymore and cannot sin, but they are not robots for the angels and saints already made the choice beforehand.

A fallen angel cannot be redeemed for there is no way to put off the sin, for when they sinned they tainted their entire being.

A human can be saved despite their sins, for all sins reside in the flesh, which Paul said there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh, and the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other, and when their sins are forgiven and they are saved they can put off the flesh, and the soul is preserved, which shall have a glorified body.

So while it is the flesh that can condemn us, it is also because of the flesh we can be saved for we can repent of our sins, and put off the flesh.

Yes, we did not inherit Adam and Eve original sins because that is their choice.
Since God gave us a freewill, we can select Good from Evil.

But according to the One True God we committed the same Sins. Because nothing is new.
Who can explain this?
ECCLESIASTES 1:9
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil; imparted the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve as they lost their innocence.
IMO this means: Those who haven't gotten old enough to know right from wrong and those who are handicapped remain innocent, like the angels, weren't able to commit any sins and are therefore free from judgment.

“And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:6‬ ‭

the knowledge of good and evil caused this problem it wasn’t meant for man to be like this

“Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:20-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We weren’t supposed to know good and evil and become sinners like that’s describing. We aren’t supposed to have good and evil dwelling within us like that . We were meant to be like Jesus and just listen to God and follow his word trusting what he said

 

[Magenta]

.
It's common knowledge that Adam's disobedience brought about the fall of man; but
apparently nobody seems to know what caused the changes in his consciousness.

How did it come about that one minute Adam cared not at all about his appearance and
the next minute suddenly ashamed of himself in the buff? Did God cause the change?
Did the Serpent cause the change? Or was it to due to his body's natural reaction
to the chemistry of the forbidden fruit?

I would greatly appreciate for someone who knows what the h__ll they're talking about to step up here
and explain exactly what power, force, energy or chemistry it was that altered Adam's consciousness.
_

I don't think the natural chemistry of the fruit had anything to do with it. Heh, I had never even
considered that as an option, before. The fact of the matter is that God could have drawn a line
in the sand and said, do not cross this line, and their crossing it would have been a sinful act of
disobedience which would have likely had the same outcome. Adam knew it was wrong to eat
of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but he did so anyways, and in that act of disobedience,
he knew he had in fact crossed the line. I believe Adam was conscious of losing God's covering, and in
coming to full awareness of this, saw himself as evil, and sought to cover his shame. God fashioned
better coverings for them, and promised the coming of One Whose sacrificial covering via the shedding
of His righteous blood would overcome the wickedness Satan had aspired to wreak on God's handiwork.

 

[Aaron56]

Prior to the fall, Adam and Eve identified with God who was their father. Their father was Spirit (John 4:24) so they saw themselves as spirits clothed in flesh. They were given bodies to interact with creation. Their Father provided an environment that was perfectly compatible with them: all of their needs, their safety, their well-being, etc., the environment accommodated all their concerns.

They would gain wisdom and understanding by putting into practice what their Father showed them. By this lifestyle, following the direction of their Father in all they did, they would come to understand both good and evil.

"But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

We might think, "But, without sin, why is knowing good or evil important?" Part of the destiny of man is to judge angels. Even if Adm and Eve continued without sin, they would have to know the basis upon which to judge the angels who rebelled.

The difference was HOW the knowledge of good and evil was obtained. There was nothing special about the fruit of the tree. It was not magic. It was simply off-limits for their direct consumption. Man was never to be the arbiter of good and evil. He was always supposed to gain such wisdom from his Father, God, and walk in His ways which are always righteous and good.

As they consumed the fruit they immediately identified with their physical make-up and saw themselves as flesh and, therefore, naked: previously they saw themselves as spirits clothed in flesh.

As an aside, this is why, in the ministry of reconciliation, we are to regard "no man after the flesh".

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

To continue: when it reads "and their eyes were opened" this is not a reference to their physical eyes. This is a reference to the eyes of their soul. They saw how the fruit could benefit them even though consuming it was contrary to the way of their Father.

And this is the crux of the issue: original sin. This sin is summarized in the scripture thus: "For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world."

Jesus tells us such lusts and pride are the ways of the world. It's no mystery, then, that as the world proceeds to its end, lawlessness will abound. Lawlessness is when people do what is right in their own eyes.

So, the world of man-kind is approaching a dichotomy: there will only be two sons left in the world. The side that has rejected God will do what is right in their own eyes: they will make up rules and laws that serve their own purposes. This "son" is called Adam. He will be completely lawless, consumed with his own lusts and desires. The other side, reconciled to God's original intent through Christ, will live by the Spirit, only doing what they see their Father doing. This son is "Christ". all who believe on Him for life will be included in Him.

I'll stop here. As I began writing I envisioned only a couple paragraphs.

Blessings

 

[Magenta]

Also, Adam and Eve were of the natural world. In our natural condition, as the natural man, it is
fear of death which keeps man in bondage to sin. So the real conundrum for me is, if they feared
death, why did they not simply eat from the Tree of Life? Many seem to think the lie of the serpent
was that they would become like God in knowing good and evil, but that is not correct, because
God said, "Man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil." The lie the serpent deceived
Eve with was, "You shall not surely die." Sadly, it is being told to this very day.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
If the original sin is obtained via heredity then whence did Eve obtain it?

She was constructed with material taken from Adam's body; but all that was
over and done with prior to his eating the forbidden fruit so it was too late
for him to pass his sin, and its consequences, to her via reproduction.

Nor did Eve obtain the sin by her own eating of the forbidden fruit because
when she tasted it, nothing happened. Eve went right on unashamed in the
nude the same as before. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that Eve became
sensitive about her appearance naked.

So if Eve's altered perception of decency wasn't due to heredity, nor due to
the chemistry of the fruit: then what?
_

 

[Eli1]

Also, Adam and Eve were of the natural world. In our natural condition, as the natural man, it is
fear of death which keeps man in bondage to sin. So the real conundrum for me is, if they feared
death, why did they not simply eat from the Tree of Life? Many seem to think the lie of the serpent
was that they would become like God in knowing good and evil, but that is not correct, because
God said, "Man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil." The lie the serpent deceived
Eve with was, "You shall not surely die." Sadly, it is being told to this very day.

Adam and Eve were in a child-like state. They didn't know what Death meant.
I mentioned in another topic, when my grandmother told me to stay away from the cooking stove and keep my hands away from it when i was 5 years old.
Not only i didn't listen to her, but i thought she was just making things up. So when i went near the stove and burned my hand, i realized the importance or words in relation to actions when they come from those who love you.
So Adam and Eve were in that blissful state and their first action when they eat from the tree, was shame. Shame that they were naked.
The point of all this is growth and appreciation. We now seek God and ask for re-union back with Him because we appreciate Him more in our growth.
We, or I more specifically want to get back to that blissful state but with some remembrance of our growth. But if God wants to take away my memory, i won't complain if i'm given a choice. Take it, and keep me.

As far as the details of the chemistry or the physics of the Tree itself, i ponder about that all the time, but it's a mystery and it will be revealed in due time like the Gospel says.
Maybe the tree of life contains nanobots to keep the body eternal, or maybe the body configuration was more of light-based instead of chemistry-based, or maybe it's another realm entirely and their bodies changed gradually after God put the angels there with a flaming sword which could have been a barrier between realms.
I don't know. It'd be great to know someday but these technical details are not as important as learning about obedience to our Creator, which is the point of this (limited) free-willed journey.

 

[Ballaurena]

The forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil; imparted the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve as they lost their innocence.
IMO this means: Those who haven't gotten old enough to know right from wrong and those who are handicapped remain innocent, like the angels, weren't able to commit any sins and are therefore free from judgment.

Not sure what to make of that but do understand that what the Knowledge of Good and Evil means (via prophecy) is deception - a mixture that keeps you from being able to see the truth.

 

[Burn1986]

The forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil; imparted the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve as they lost their innocence.
IMO this means: Those who haven't gotten old enough to know right from wrong and those who are handicapped remain innocent, like the angels, weren't able to commit any sins and are therefore free from judgment.

Oft times we gain the biggest revelation right after failing or committing a sin.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

It's a literal tree of knowledge. Who is that tree? Me and you and every human being. We are that tree. There was also another tree in the center of the garden of Eden called the tree of Life. Who is that tree? Christ! God said: from the moment you eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil surely you shall die. The day you rely on yourself, my child, your beginning will be good and your end evil (Mar Mari Emmanuel).

Interesting reply, yet is the tree symbolic of a man or a book?

"...whose names are in the book of life." Phil 4:3
"...whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world,..." Rev 17:8

Since the two trees are both in the midst of the garden, then the principle should show one that two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time so the two are one in the same. As evident by the question of the tree, the verse can interpreted in different ways so the Bible can be either the book of knowledge of good and evil or the book of life.

A person cannot read the written spoken word unless taught how to read, and once taught how to read does not mean that they know what is meant by what is written in the scriptures as evident in the passage of Isa 29:11-13:

11And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

If the Holy Ghost taught someone how to read then the Holy Ghost will be the one who teaches them what is meant by what is written. (See Deut 18:20)

Thus as written in Mark 7:18-20
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

 

[montana123]

The forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil; imparted the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve as they lost their innocence.
IMO this means: Those who haven't gotten old enough to know right from wrong and those who are handicapped remain innocent, like the angels, weren't able to commit any sins and are therefore free from judgment.

Adam and Eve were made with an innocent nature in flesh.

God put the forbidden tree in the garden because He gave them a choice.

But it would of not entered their mind to eat of the tree unless an outside source tempted them for the only reality they knew is what God related to them.

So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve which she said plainly that they could not eat of the tree for that is all she knew and could think.

So Satan tempted her with an alternate reality that if she ate of the tree they would be as gods having an elevated position and she ate and sinned.

Then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him that she did not die, and nothing bad happened to her, and he sinned.

The sin of Adam and Eve does not fall upon their offspring for that is their sin, and people are not guilty for the sins of other people, but all people will bear their own sin.

But their offspring have a choice so they are born not knowing God so they will do wrong before they repent and follow God.

But all people are born innocent with no sin on their record for they are not blamed for the sin of Adam and Eve.

Which is why the Bible says the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

It appears your testimony lines up with scripture.

Adam and Eve were made with an innocent nature in flesh.

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Gen 5:2

God put the forbidden tree in the garden because He gave them a choice.

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Gen 2:9

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:16

But it would of not entered their mind to eat of the tree unless an outside source tempted them for the only reality they knew is what God related to them.

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Gen 2:17

So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve which she said plainly that they could not eat of the tree for that is all she knew and could think.

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. Gen 3:1

And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. Gen 2:19-20

And he (serpent) said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

So Satan tempted her with an alternate reality that if she ate of the tree they would be as gods having an elevated position and she ate and sinned.

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:5

Then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him that she did not die, and nothing bad happened to her, and he sinned.

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: Gen 3:22

But all people are born innocent with no sin on their record for they are not blamed for the sin of Adam and Eve.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. 1 John 3:8

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9

Which is why the Bible says the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones.

Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. John 6:46

 

[p_rehbein]

Regarding children and mentally impaired persons who are not able to understand right from wrong, I agree that should they die before they reach what is called the age of accountability, they will go to heaven. That age is most often believed to be 12 years because Jesus was 12 when He stayed behind to speak to the Jews while Joseph and Mary were returning home.

Luke, Chapter 2:

40And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

41Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.

42And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

43And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.

44But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.

45And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him.

46And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

47And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

48And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

49And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

 

[Ballaurena]

Regarding children and mentally impaired persons who are not able to understand right from wrong, I agree that should they die before they reach what is called the age of accountability, they will go to heaven. That age is most often believed to be 12 years because Jesus was 12 when He stayed behind to speak to the Jews while Joseph and Mary were returning home.

Your comment suggests you think yourself more wise and compassionate than God? How about trusting that He knows what He is doing?

 

[posthuman]

she said plainly that they could not eat of the tree for that is all she knew and could think.

Woman had no capacity for imagination?
no capability of independent thought?

 

[posthuman]

Then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him that she did not die, and nothing bad happened to her, and he sinned.

this directly contradicts scripture. Adam was not deceived.

it also does not make sense with the account:
God did not accuse or condemn her for tempting or murdering Adam - those things are said of Satan.

Woman and Adam both confessed their sin, saying that they are - Woman never said she tempted her husband, but that she gave it to him.

they hid their shame. they knew they had changed, and were ashamed - this doesn't make sense if they were convinced Satan was correct and that God was a liar. it makes sense if they knew they had death in the, immediately when they sinned.

i believe Woman knew she was dying when she ate. so she went to her husband and said something like either "help" or "don't leave me alone" - and Adam, not deceived, but knowing she was dead/dying, made a choice to disobey God in order to be with his wife that he loved and was responsible for.

telling God she gave him the fruit and he ate it is not accusing her of murder or accusing God of being evil by giving him a lying temptress for a wife. it's a factual confession of his sin, not an attempt to deny responsibility.

God accepted their confessions, did not curse them, but preached the gospel to them and shed the blood of an innocent sacrifice and covered them.