The Texas Chainsaw Bible Massacre

[notuptome]

It's biblical. The Acts Church met mainly in homes.

In the context that they were under threat of persecution not unlike parts of the world today where they still meet in secret house churches. They first met in the outer court of the temple until the Jewish leadership drove them out.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dave-L]

In the context that they were under threat of persecution not unlike parts of the world today where they still meet in secret house churches. They first met in the outer court of the temple until the Jewish leadership drove them out.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

But the point is, the church is invisible until we hold a church assembly. Then we return to invisibility.

 

[presidente]

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 (KJV 1900)

I think some born-again are deceived in this matter. I'm not so sure about those who studied the matter and reject the truth.

Are those who add holding to a particular eschatology as a requirement for salvation born again?

 

[Dave-L]

Are those who add holding to a particular eschatology as a requirement for salvation born again?

Many born again are no doubt deceived. I started out deceived in every area you can think of.

 

[notuptome]

But the point is, the church is invisible until we hold a church assembly. Then we return to invisibility.

Nope. We are lights set upon a hill to show forth the gospel. Nothing invisible about being a witness for Christ. If you were in a good bible teaching church you could grow in the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dave-L]

Nope. We are lights set upon a hill to show forth the gospel. Nothing invisible about being a witness for Christ. If you were in a good bible teaching church you could grow in the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Church = assembly for teaching. Christian = streets are for preaching.

 

[notuptome]

Church = assembly for teaching. Christian = streets are for preaching.

How whimsical.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dave-L]

How whimsical.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That's NT Christianity, like it or not.

 

[notuptome]

That's NT Christianity, like it or not.

Perhaps your outsider view of it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[presidente]

Church = assembly for teaching. Christian = streets are for preaching.

The equals sign doesn't make sense in that last quasi-sentence. I agree 'church' is an assembly (primarily) for believers to edify one another and the break bread. They typically met in homes in Biblical times, though the Jerusalem church also met in the temple courts, at least early on. The apostles evangelized in the temple courts, synagogue, and the marketplace. I imagine the Acts 2 message being preached outside of the upper room, probably in the street.

 

[presidente]

In the context that they were under threat of persecution not unlike parts of the world today where they still meet in secret house churches. They first met in the outer court of the temple until the Jewish leadership drove them out.

I am just wondering here. This is a tangent, but are you against Christians in countries that are not under severe persecution meeting in homes like the early church did? There isn't any evidence for a 'steeplehouse' style church building in the New Testament. There were churches that met in homes out of Jerusalem, in the house of Aquilla and Priscilla, in the house of Nympha, in the house of Philemon (or Arcchippus, depending on how one interprets the opening verses of Philemon.) Paul wrote from Corinth of 'Gaius mine host, and of the whole church'. It was the norm to have church meetings in homes back then. The Jerusalem church was quite large and met in Solomon's porch and from house to house.

Paul evangelized in synagogues, the marketplace, and the Aereopagos. But 'church' meetings outside of Jerusalem are associated with homes of individuals if the location is mentioned. Paul met with some men in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. It could have 'been' church or evangelistic outreach. James made a reference to his readers who had the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ having a 'synagogue' in James 2:2.

But generally, there were meetings in homes. The idea of a church building being built as sacred space-- holy ground-- isn't in the Bible. I wonder if some people treat these places like the high places in the Old Testament.

 

[GaryA]

Interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

You are very welcome. And, thank you. I wrote it. It describes what I believe the Bible is telling us about the true nature of 'the church' and 'churches'.

My position on the church is it is believers only, invisible with no physical presence in the world until 2-3 or more meet in Jesus' name. This can be anywhere and nowhere in particular. And then we return to invisibility when the meeting ends. Institutional Churches are man-made and do some good but always entropy into error. Where the truth does not change.

I understand. What I believe is, in a way, similar to what you describe here; only, with some difference(s).

Using what is written on that web page in a relative comparison to "the kingdom", let me suggest that:

(From your point of view, in "kingdom" terms.)

~ The 'spiritual' [church] represents the kingdom that you have been describing - as a spiritual [invisible] kingdom that exists currently, and has existed since it began in the first century.

~ The 'universal' [church] represents the kingdom that most everyone else is describing - as a physical kingdom that will exist for 1000 years starting at some point in the future.

Would you say that this is accurate to any reasonable degree?

 

[GaryA]

All Scripture must agree? Where did you get that from?

In other words, we know that there can be no contradictions in scripture.

 

[Dave-L]

You are very welcome. And, thank you. I wrote it. It describes what I believe the Bible is telling us about the true nature of 'the church' and 'churches'.


I understand. What I believe is, in a way, similar to what you describe here; only, with some difference(s).

Using what is written on that web page in a relative comparison to "the kingdom", let me suggest that:

(From your point of view, in "kingdom" terms.)

~ The 'spiritual' [church] represents the kingdom that you have been describing - as a spiritual [invisible] kingdom that exists currently, and has existed since it began in the first century.

~ The 'universal' [church] represents the kingdom that most everyone else is describing - as a physical kingdom that will exist for 1000 years starting at some point in the future.

Would you say that this is accurate to any reasonable degree?

The millennium is a pharisee doctrine Christ refuted time and again in the gospels. 1000 is a symbol of Satan's binding in Revelation. Not the kingdom. He attacks the kingdom when the 1000 years end.

 

[Dave-L]

The equals sign doesn't make sense in that last quasi-sentence. I agree 'church' is an assembly (primarily) for believers to edify one another and the break bread. They typically met in homes in Biblical times, though the Jerusalem church also met in the temple courts, at least early on. The apostles evangelized in the temple courts, synagogue, and the marketplace. I imagine the Acts 2 message being preached outside of the upper room, probably in the street.

Study the Churches in Acts and the Epistles and use those for your definition. They were home-based and the temple was part of their street ministry.

 

[Dave-L]

Perhaps your outsider view of it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Prove it wrong from scripture.

 

[presidente]

Study the Churches in Acts and the Epistles and use those for your definition. They were home-based and the temple was part of their street ministry.

Do you do house church? If so, how do people in your house church think of not only your amil stance but your questioning the salvation of those who don't? Have you managed to find a whole house church of amils?

I know of a house church that had some full preterists in it. It eventually had to split.

 

[presidente]

Study the Churches in Acts and the Epistles and use those for your definition. They were home-based and the temple was part of their street ministry.

Acts 5:21

11 So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things.
12 And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon’s Porch. 13 Yet none of the rest dared join them, but the people esteemed them highly.

 

[Dave-L]

Acts 5:21

11 So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things.
12 And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon’s Porch. 13 Yet none of the rest dared join them, but the people esteemed them highly.

But they centered in house church meetings.

 

[Dave-L]

Do you do house church? If so, how do people in your house church think of not only your amil stance but your questioning the salvation of those who don't? Have you managed to find a whole house church of amils?

I know of a house church that had some full preterists in it. It eventually had to split.

Jesus taught Amillennialism. He also said only the born-again could see the kingdom. Premillennialism is a Pharisee doctrine he refuted many times in the gospels. Preterism is a false doctrine sent by Jesuits to deceive protestants.