The seeker sensitive movement

[Godsgirl83]

Did they still want the brownies?

that batch, nope.
of course I didn't ACTUALLY put in it, but they were convinced and I had to throw them out and make fresh
(thankfully it was only a .99 cent box mix and not the expensive fresh from scrap ones I usually make)

 

[SoulWeaver]

I can just speak for myself, and specifically about Hillsong, what I find wrong about it is how showbiz it all is. Honestly these people go on stage and it's all about them not God, looks to me like the Idol competion, a lot of glitz and glam. I do not find that music spiritual at all. But there's no telling if God will use a certain song to speak to someone. He may do so if He has nothing better in sight, He will always use what is there. I mean, He used a donkey... As for the seeker sensitive movement, I believe it wastes people's time, they think they are making spiritual progress when they are spinning in circles. But who knows, maybe it makes them open the Bible and run into something that will shock them back to their senses. So in short, all these serving God? I think all these organizations are about serving themselves. Can God use them though? Yes He can.

 

[Scribe]

So I have spent the past hour googling and researching information about Bethel. Wikipedia was a good resource as always (please do not attempt to engage me with your conspiracy views on wikipedia, I will not respond) I think I have a better understanding on what is actually going on now. The students that got involved in the grave sucking based on the story from the bible about Elijahs bones were acting on their own, (howbeit the pastors wife getting involved is worrisome)

The whole Bethel movement is focused on revival and being open to whatever God wants to do. Therefore you can expect excesses and abuses as they have always popped up in all revivals in church history. Hopefully the excesses and abuses get corrected as they move forward without quenching the genuine move of the Holy Spirit.

This has been the the objective since the first church. Go forward in the genuine move of the Holy Spirit rejecting foolishness and unscriptural manifestations while NOT quenching the Spirit or despising prophesying.

I am not ready to classify them as a cult, or teaching another Gospel or another Jesus.

I was wondering why they felt the need to live the Assemblies of God, and from what I have discovered so far they would not have been asked to leave the Assemblies of God for what they are teaching or practicing in their worship services. They chose to leave the Assemblies because they felt their call to focus on these Networks which I take to mean the planting of additional Bethel churches that they want to proliferate to establish their vision. This would have probably been allowed without them withdrawing from the Assemblies of God but they probably assumed they might not have the same level of control. The truth is the AOG is not a controlling denomination, it is a cooperative voluntary fellowship of autonomous local assemblies. The emphasis has always been on allowing the Holy Spirit to have control in the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit in the local assemblies and I am sure that the Assemblies of God as a whole would be more than happy to embrace all of the Bethel churches back into the cooperative voluntary fellowship of the AOG without changing a thing that they are currently attempting by their proliferation of Bethel churches.

The extremes emotionalism is simply an easy fix as you counsel individuals who are doing it. Not a major problem that cant be fixed without quenching the genuine manifestation of Spiritual gifts. They are on record as not supporting grave sucking, or card reading.

I knew none of this an hour ago so I will remain open to new information.

 

[JamOn]

I once heard some preacher saying Christians should not listen to Bethel and Hilsong music. The lyrics are apparently written to the person of the opposite sex and not primarily to God.

I would like to hear your views:
Is the seeker sensitive movement biblical?
What are the pros and cons?

The preacher is delusional, there’s scripture that talks about the opposite sex why is that a issue

 

[lenna]

I once heard some preacher saying Christians should not listen to Bethel and Hilsong music. The lyrics are apparently written to the person of the opposite sex and not primarily to God.

I would like to hear your views:
Is the seeker sensitive movement biblical?
What are the pros and cons?

That's nonsense. While I might not agree with certain things and would not encourage the way music seems to be elevated beyond anything else in Hillsong, certain individuals have taken it upon themself to judge what they should perhaps judge first in themself.

Hillsong is not a seeker church and neither is Bethel.

Here is a statement for what Hillsong Church believes from their own website.

Bethel is a New Apostolic Church.

Just to be clear, I am responding only to the op regarding the music and not agreeing or disparaging any other part of either church. There is plenty that could be discussed along those lines, but addressing the music only and the fact rumors fly fast in tiny little Christian circles and that is far from a good thing. Whatever happened to prayer?

 

[John146]

Imo the worshipping of the Lord is one of the biggest failures of the church.
We have forgotten how to worship.
It's not to sing songs on the top 40 nor is it to entertain us.
The worship team as it's called in some churches must do some serious homework.
They are to prepare the congregation and lead them into the holy of holies.
The invitation and privilege of humbling one's self before God is not taken seriously enough.
Most expressions are emotional and not spiritual. Empty and not meaningful.
Presenting yourself before the Lord our God should be sincere and humbling. Fearful yet satisfying.
It should be a need that your soul requires and looks forward to. A place of peace and awe.

#hymns of the faith

 

[lenna]

Actually the "worship team" should be abolished. All believers are to gather to worship in Spirit and in truth. "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day" (said the apostle John).

I don't have a problem with that term. You can read about worship teams in the Old Testament.

I'd like to see everyone worshiping in spirit and truth. That would be great but that is not what goes on when people berate those who are actually doing that very thing.

On the other hand, that does not mean all worship teams should be so engaged. Big subject.

 

[John146]

Actually the "worship team" should be abolished. All believers are to gather to worship in Spirit and in truth. "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day" (said the apostle John).

And keep the lights on and lose the fog machines...

 

[lenna]

#hymns of the faith

In the New Testament we read of songs of the Spirit. Spontaneous worship,

26How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. I Corinthians 14: 26

The referral to a psalm, is song as the Psalms were most often put to music for worship. While there are many really beautiful old hymns, people tend to sing them without even always understanding what is being said because of the antiquated usage of some of the English language.

Frankly, I think putting music to the Psalms is the closest to songs of the faith. People like to point out the emotionalism in songs today, but the old hymns are really chock full of the same thing when you take a better look,

 

[Reformyourself]

Did they still want the brownies?

Don’t think it would put me off

 

[Reformyourself]

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace.........

Went to a family baptism service, and that’s the verse that popped into my head. It was like a nightclub-couldn’t wait to get out of there

 

[lenna]

The whole Bethel movement is focused on revival and being open to whatever God wants to do. Therefore you can expect excesses and abuses as they have always popped up in all revivals in church history. Hopefully the excesses and abuses get corrected as they move forward without quenching the genuine move of the Holy Spirit.

Right regarding revival. While millions could use it, Jesus never said to go out and make revivalists. (not my observation but a correct one I think)

I would hesitate, no wait actually put on both rear and front breaks to a screeching halt, to state 'open to whatever God wants to do'. Doesn't that sound wonderful? However there are actual occult practices being enabled and encouraged. I've studied Bethel at length and I am positive there are sincere people there but sincerity is not protection against protection.

Johnson is all tied up with the NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) and has made some grievous errors with regards to who he endorses.

 

[biker]

Right regarding revival. While millions could use it, Jesus never said to go out and make revivalists. (not my observation but a correct one I think)

I would hesitate, no wait actually put on both rear and front breaks to a screeching halt, to state 'open to whatever God wants to do'. Doesn't that sound wonderful? However there are actual occult practices being enabled and encouraged. I've studied Bethel at length and I am positive there are sincere people there but sincerity is not protection against protection.

Johnson is all tied up with the NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) and has made some grievous errors with regards to who he endorses.

I've researched them as well and discovered a few things I thought was odd. Like the Pastors Bishop teaching to lift your hands, focus your mind, and you can bring Heaven down to you. Or the laying on graves to recapture the spirit of the dead. Some have claimed the spirit of kundalini is in their worship with a video showing a man on all 4's walking and barking like a dog while his wife is holding the end of his tie like it is a dog leash. Then he supposedly backed this guy who shakes non stop while reading and preaching the Bible. Guy looks like a thug and like he is stoned on meth. For the most part, I think there has been a misinterpretation of Scripture more than anything else. But some other Christians (Baptist-Wesleyan-Methodist-Etc) have made a bigger deal out of it.

 

[lenna]

I've researched them as well and discovered a few things I thought was odd. Like the Pastors Bishop teaching to lift your hands, focus your mind, and you can bring Heaven down to you. Or the laying on graves to recapture the spirit of the dead. Some have claimed the spirit of kundalini is in their worship with a video showing a man on all 4's walking and barking like a dog while his wife is holding the end of his tie like it is a dog leash. Then he supposedly backed this guy who shakes non stop while reading and preaching the Bible. Guy looks like a thug and like he is stoned on meth. For the most part, I think there has been a misinterpretation of Scripture more than anything else. But some other Christians (Baptist-Wesleyan-Methodist-Etc) have made a bigger deal out of it.

Scripture? If only. Nope. It is mostly about personal revelation and putting that ahead of the word.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

No, I do not think criticism of the seeker sensitive movement is wrong, as some are clearly called to expose false teachers. What I was speaking to is our attitude toward seekers themselves. Such were some of us, after all, as everyone is born an enemy to God. So while we are also called to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, I do not think it wrong to hope that those caught in these movements have the Truth of God's Word revealed to them as well.

Oh okay, I see what you mean then. Don't worry the Truth of God's Word will smite them pretty terribly, his eye will not spare, his eye will not pity, he is the Lord God the only God, in Jesus name amen.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I don't have a problem with that term. You can read about worship teams in the Old Testament.

The Old Testament worship included the temple, the Levitical priesthood, the Levites, the singers, etc. The temple sacrifices were a major part of temple worship.

But New Testament worship is based upon the fact of THE PRIESTHOOD OF ALL BELIEVERS. There were no worship teams in the New Testament churches, as should be clear from Scripture. Therefore worship teams should be abolished.

 

[Scribe]

The Old Testament worship included the temple, the Levitical priesthood, the Levites, the singers, etc. The temple sacrifices were a major part of temple worship.

But New Testament worship is based upon the fact of THE PRIESTHOOD OF ALL BELIEVERS. There were no worship teams in the New Testament churches, as should be clear from Scripture. Therefore worship teams should be abolished.

If done

The Old Testament worship included the temple, the Levitical priesthood, the Levites, the singers, etc. The temple sacrifices were a major part of temple worship.

But New Testament worship is based upon the fact of THE PRIESTHOOD OF ALL BELIEVERS. There were no worship teams in the New Testament churches, as should be clear from Scripture. Therefore worship teams should be abolished.

But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

Are they worshiping in Spirit and in Truth? There are no other New Testament details oh how to worship in the assembly than this. God is looking at the heart.

 

[pottersclay]

90% of the songs I hear daily are about the Lord but we are asked to sing praises to the Lord.
Big difference if you ask me.
Maybe it's all in the way you hear it I guess.
I always had a problem in this area, I was once looked down upon when I mentioned a dance we could possibly do as a celebration thing as a congregation. That went over like a lead balloon. Lol
I love to dance, sing and rejoice....my wife catches me sometime and laughs but sometimes she joins me.
The way I look at it is "Lord with you in my life I'm doing okey dokey regardless of the woes and troubles.
I get alot from the Psalms that King David wrote. Throw a little beat down and there I go.... Ol happy feet.

 

[lenna]

The Old Testament worship included the temple, the Levitical priesthood, the Levites, the singers, etc. The temple sacrifices were a major part of temple worship.

But New Testament worship is based upon the fact of THE PRIESTHOOD OF ALL BELIEVERS. There were no worship teams in the New Testament churches, as should be clear from Scripture. Therefore worship teams should be abolished.

Look, you don't like worship leaders/teams. Most people do. Not everyone should be on the worship team.

Your opinion is not something the rest of us must abide by. Thanks for your input.

And you actually cannot prove nor do you even know if there were no people leading in worship in the NT and frankly, I bet there were since God gives different gifts and abilities to different people.

 

[Ruby123]

1 Peter 5:8
Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

I'm posting a video I recently watched about Bethel.
I had seen a few titles online for things about "why you shouldn't listen" etc etc, but as I have seen legit ministries be bashed by some of these same people I had to place it on a back burner and wait upon the Lord for an answer.
I stumbled upon this video from a former Bethel student and was sickened by it.
They draw you in, then lead you astray.
Some of the things shown and talked about in this video have biblical foundations BUT they way this organization teaches and practices is VERY UNBIBLICAL, twisted, leads away from the God of the bible, in fact makes mockery.
God is a God of order, He does NOT cause confusion

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace.........

1 Corinthians 14:40
But everything must be done in a proper and orderly manner.

(did this with my kiddos when they were about 3 and 4):
I asked my kids if they wanted some brownies (something good and yummy)....
well of course they were all excited about this. ( Riding on their emotions)......
I asked them what they thought of these brownies to which replies were along the lines of
"they look good" "they smell good" "I want some".....
I asked them if they noticed anything that might be wrong with the brownies.......
nope! They didn't "see" anything wrong with them. After all, it's just brownies, how could there be anything wrong with them?
I went on to tell them that there was some mixed in with it, but it should be okay since we didn't "see" it....
did they still want those brownies?
lesson learned:
A little bit of poo mixed in defiles (ruins, destroys) the whole batch.

*and just want to note.....
I've posted music in the past before coming to this realization,
wish I could "unpost" (if I could even remember all the places where)
moving forward.........

Hillsong preaching is off too.