The "Secret Rapture" is a False Doctrine.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Amen, we see what the Reformers held on this prophecy. Here is a list I came across of Pre-Reformation and Reformers Interpretations:

Date Name Reference Interpretation

c. 1310 Dante Alighieri
Rev. 17 Harlot=Roman Church

c. 1331 Michael of Cesena
Rev. 17 Harlot/Antichrist=Roman Church, Pope

c. 1345 Johannes de Rupescissa
Antichrist, Rev. 17 Babylon, Rev. 17 Harlot=Pope/Roman church


c. 1350 Francesco Petrarch
Rev. 17 Harlot=Papal Court

c. 1367 John Milicz
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Man of Sin=Papacy


c. 1379 John Wycliffe
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn. Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot=Pope/Papacy


c. 1388 Matthias of Janow
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Man of Sin. Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon=Hierarchy/Papacy


c. 1390 John Purvey
Antichrist, Rev. 13 666, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon=Pope/Papacy


c. 1393 Walter Brute
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin=Papacy/Bishop of Rome/Papacy

c. 1412 John Huss
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Pope/Papacy


c. 1497 Girolamo Savonarola
Antichrist, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon=Pope/Papacy

Reformation Era Interpretations:

1522 Martin Luther
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1543 Philipp Melanchthon
Antichrist, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1545 Andreas Osiander
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1554 Nicolaus von Amsdorf
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1558 Johann Funck
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1560 Virgil Solis
Antichrist, Little Horn, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1570 Georg Nigrinus
Antichrist= Pope

1572 David Chytraeus
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin= Papacy

1530 Johann Oecolampadius
Antichrist, Little Horn=Papacy

1557 Heinrich Bullinger
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1550 William Tyndale
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1545 George Joys
Antichrist, Little Horn=Papacy

1554 Nicholas Ridley
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Rev. 17 Harlot. Rev. 17 Babylon
Rev. 17 Beast=Papacy

1553 Hugh Latimer
Antichrist=Papacy

1582 Thomas Cranmer
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1550 John Bale
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon
Rev. 17 Beast=Papacy

1562 John Jewel
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon
Rev. 17 Beast=Papacy

1587 John Foxe
Antichrist, Man of Sin=Bishop of Rome

1563 Anglican Formulas
Antichrist=Papacy

1547 John Knox
Antichrist, Little Horn=Church of Rome/Papacy

1593 John Napier
Antichrist, Man of Sin, Rev. 13 1st Beast, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon
Rev. 17 Beast =Pope/Papacy/Latin Empire

1614 Thomas Brightman
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Pope/Papacy

1618 David Pareus
Antichrist, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Beast=Pope/Papacy

Sir Isaac Newton
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

John Wesley
Man of Sin. Rev. 17 Harlot. Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy also Antichrist

And they ask the question, "In view of the foregoing Reformation interpretations identifying Papacy as the Antichrist and Man of Sin, why do so many Evangelical Protestants today believe the Man of Sin and Antichrist are future individuals?" Reformation Views

We see the Protestant churches turn from what they held and purpose and slowly drift back to the grasp of the Papal Power, the AntiChrist entity which fulfills what prophecy gives us.
Amen ! Brother :)
I didn't realize the number of "documented protesters" was so extensive. Thank you for searching, finding and presenting. I know the Roman Church has been very active in erasing and rewriting historical documents, to deceive mankind, to give the anti-Christ, it's power & authority.


Such as "the Donation of Constantine, the best-known and most important forgery of the Middle Ages, the document purporting to record the Roman emperor Constantine the Great’s bestowal of vast territory and spiritual and temporal power on Pope Sylvester I (reigned 314–335) and his successors."

Revelation 13:1-2
"And I stood on the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like to a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."
ΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣ
 
The Bible says to be ready when He comes. I don't need to care about when, I just need to be ready to go.
Oh, ... for sure Brother ! Amen !
We need to, teach (Matthew 28:19-20) and warn (Revelation 14:6-12) as many people as possible, during These Last Day Events, to whosoever will listen, to direct as many lost souls as possible to JESUS, by His Way, His Truth, to His Life.


ΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣ
 
I take it you have not read the escape verse in Revelation.
If you are not familiar with Revelation I will post it for you

Or the command from Jesus.
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Amen.
I line up with those pretrib rapture verses from Jesus.
The groom is coming for his bride.
Those left behind as you indicated face the wife beater.
That is the Second Coming my brother as you see in verse just before that, verse 27...
Luke 21:27
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Daniel 7:13
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Matthew 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mark 14:62
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
 
That is the Second Coming my brother as you see in verse just before that, verse 27...
Luke 21:27
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Daniel 7:13
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Matthew 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mark 14:62
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Both sides believe he comes AFTER THE TRIB in power and great Glory.
The second coming is WITH THE SAINTS.

The rapture is FOR the saints.
JESUS taught the rapture is pretrib.

Postribbers Painted themselves into a doctrinal corner with the "one coming" theory
 
Oh, ... for sure Brother ! Amen !
We need to, teach (Matthew 28:19-20) and warn (Revelation 14:6-12) as many people as possible, during These Last Day Events, to whosoever will listen, to direct as many lost souls as possible to JESUS, by His Way, His Truth, to His Life.


ΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣ
Amen.
Great pretrib rapture points!
 
Amen ! Brother :)
I didn't realize the number of "documented protesters" was so extensive. Thank you for searching, finding and presenting. I know the Roman Church has been very active in erasing and rewriting historical documents, to deceive mankind, to give the anti-Christ, it's power & authority.


Such as "the Donation of Constantine, the best-known and most important forgery of the Middle Ages, the document purporting to record the Roman emperor Constantine the Great’s bestowal of vast territory and spiritual and temporal power on Pope Sylvester I (reigned 314–335) and his successors."

Revelation 13:1-2
"And I stood on the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like to a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."
ΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣ
Rev 14;14
A gathering DURING THE TRIB.

GOOD POINT!
 
Because its being used to fool people into thinking there will be another way to get to heaven rather than the Second Coming of Christ.
The second coming is Rev 19.
( the ONLY gathering after the trib is in heaven, not earth, according to Matthew 24.)
Postribbers have never processed it word for word.

BTW...POSTRIBBERS declare that THEY are raptured ONLY TO THE SKY....and never see heaven.
There is nobody going to heaven at the second coming in power and great glory in rev 19.
In Rev 19 the saints ARE IN HEAVEN, AND ACCOMPANYING JESUS TO EARTH.( In the RETURN TO EARTH at the second coming.)

.....as Noah returned to earth after the trib/flood.
The church, nor Noah is gathered postrib / postflood.
 
That is what my brother in the church told us, I think that is what we must do, as we are so close to the Second Coming not much else needs to be done...
Amen.
Rapture right around the corner.
AC WILL ARRIVE and the church goes to heaven for 7 years.

Groom gathers the bride to heaven.
 
Both sides believe he comes AFTER THE TRIB in power and great Glory.
The second coming is WITH THE SAINTS.

The rapture is FOR the saints.
JESUS taught the rapture is pretrib.

Postribbers Painted themselves into a doctrinal corner with the "one coming" theory

Comment

I have heard Jesus taught this rapture but I can not find it --only the First resurrection at Christ return at the Last Trump and I have never found a single scripture in the entire Bible saying the reward is living in heaven, what i have found is the Saints of God will rule with Christ as Kings here on earth.

When talking about salvation, Jesus Christ always states it is eternal life not heaven.

I believe this heaven and hell stuff came from Rome where all the rest of the lies were started.
 
Comment
I have heard Jesus taught this rapture but I can not find it --only the First resurrection at Christ return at the Last Trump and I have never found a single scripture in the entire Bible saying the reward is living in heaven, what i have found is the Saints of God will rule with Christ as Kings here on earth.

When talking about salvation, Jesus Christ always states it is eternal life not heaven.

I believe this heaven and hell stuff came from Rome where all the rest of the lies were started.
Matthew 24.
Before the flood one taken, one left behind.
Matt 25
The groom comes and takes the bride.

The 2 escape verses by Jesus:
"But pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the world and stand before the son of man."

" Because you have kept the word of my testimony. I will also keep you from the trial that is about to come upon the entire earth."

Acts 1
" Why stand you gazing up into the Sky ? this same Jesus Will return in like manner."
 
Comment
I have heard Jesus taught this rapture but I can not find it --only the First resurrection at Christ return at the Last Trump and I have never found a single scripture in the entire Bible saying the reward is living in heaven, what i have found is the Saints of God will rule with Christ as Kings here on earth.

When talking about salvation, Jesus Christ always states it is eternal life not heaven.

I believe this heaven and hell stuff came from Rome where all the rest of the lies were started.
QUOTE
""When talking about salvation, Jesus Christ always states it is eternal life not heaven""

Huh?
The saints in Rev 19 are ALREADY IN HEAVEN during the trib.
The wedding feast is in heaven and stated so in Rev 19.
In Rev 19, the bride has become the wife.

All in heaven.

When Jesus comes, at the pretrib rapture, and at the second coming, the saints are with him.

IOW they have been in heaven during the trib. Now they return WITH HIM.
 
We have a false doctrine that John Nelson Darby invented and spread during 1830-1833 which had not been held in Christianity, but slowly this idea got picked up and crept into Christianity and which has infected the world today. Many Churches began picking up the false Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture", which gives the people the idea that if you are a real Christian you will be caught up in the secret rapture to be with Christ. This "Secret Rapture" doctrine did not exist before John Darby invented it in 1830 and somehow came into a idea from him, no one had ever heard of a secret rapture doctrine. The only thing that even came close was a short essay that a student Morgan Edwards wrote as a college paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744 where the student confused the second coming with the first resurrection of Revelation 20 and described a "pre-tribulation" rapture. To arrive at this the Scripture has to be twisted and taken out of context. Here are some of the texts that have been quoted as referring to the rapture
You are spot on, with your understanding, ... and be of good cheer, Brother.

... many "mockers will taunt us, just as the world did Noah, when He tried to persuade them to the Truth, to coming to the "Ark" (Jesus). Jesus stands outside them, knocking to "Let Him IN" Rev 3:20, and to be as Gal 2:20. ... BUT many will not and can not understand ...
The verse is often interpreted as a call to spiritual awakening, where Jesus seeks a responsive heart that will open the door to His presence. Once 'indwell o His Holy Spirit", do YOU think you will be sinning, like keeping a spurious sabbath, against the Father's Will?


2 Corinthians 4:1 "Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;"
Being honest, believers & followers of Jesus, the Christ, His disciples, with all integrity, by the power of His Holy Spirit. Amen!


2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: ( ... as in the Days of Noah, and as here & now, today )


4 In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine to them.

This doctrine of "the rapture" is but a small part of this bigger theological religious system, that was developed and has been promoted these last 500 years, by the anti-Christ religious system, being the agent of the "Lord of This World", Satan.
 
You are spot on, with your understanding, ... and be of good cheer, Brother.

... many "mockers will taunt us, just as the world did Noah, when He tried to persuade them to the Truth, to coming to the "Ark" (Jesus). Jesus stands outside them, knocking to "Let Him IN" Rev 3:20, and to be as Gal 2:20. ... BUT many will not and can not understand ...
The verse is often interpreted as a call to spiritual awakening, where Jesus seeks a responsive heart that will open the door to His presence. Once 'indwell o His Holy Spirit", do YOU think you will be sinning, like keeping a spurious sabbath, against the Father's Will?


2 Corinthians 4:1 "Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;"
Being honest, believers & followers of Jesus, the Christ, His disciples, with all integrity, by the power of His Holy Spirit. Amen!


2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: ( ... as in the Days of Noah, and as here & now, today )


4 In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine to them.

This doctrine of "the rapture" is but a small part of this bigger theological religious system, that was developed and has been promoted these last 500 years, by the anti-Christ religious system, being the agent of the "Lord of This World", Satan.
Oh the rapture of the bride goes way farther back than that.
Get yourself a good bible, then look up the rapture verses that your doctrine is totally afraid of.
Then understand the picture of end times, which is the bride and groom, is from heaven.
Ask yourself why your doctrine skips the heart of heaven...the bride and groom.

Pretrib rapture adherents are THE ONLY ONES touching the heart of end times.

The rapture is the taking of the bride.
Your doctrine is, sentences, dogma, mental, and upset people.

Upset at anyone challenging your theory with the bible.
That is WHY you guys need that "origin of doctrine argument" ,...(unbelievably lame.)
But no, it reveals you can not debate scripture because we will force you to go against the bible.
IOW shoot the messenger because you can't make a biblical argument.
 
We have a false doctrine that John Nelson Darby invented and spread during 1830-1833 which had not been held in Christianity, but slowly this idea got picked up and crept into Christianity and which has infected the world today.

Well said. The so-called 'secret' rapture has given rise to the modern 'disappearance' of saints at the Lord's coming.

The prophecies show that the first resurrection of the saints will be in a moment and twinkling of the eye, but the 'rapture' is their their catching away into the air, and fully visible as Jesus' own ascent into the clouds. This is typified with the two witnesses in Rev 11.

1 Th 4:15
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Rev 11:11
And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.


I would say these two witnesses are simply part of the first great resurrection of the saints, so that the Lord's shout to His resurrected saints, is Come up hither!

where the student confused the second coming with the first resurrection of Revelation 20 and described a "pre-tribulation" rapture.
Where does this come from? It's out of context, and has nothing to do with the error of the rapture being 'secret'.

It's one thing to debunk a secret rapture, but something different to reject the rapture.

The blessed first resurrection of the saints is at the Lord's second coming, to receive His own unto Himself in the air. The post-Millennium rest of the dead are then resurrected unto judgement, with both good or bad.

To arrive at this the Scripture has to be twisted and taken out of context. Here are some of the texts that have been quoted as referring to the rapture:-
  1. The Church will meet Christ in the air - 1 Thessalonians 4:17
  2. The Church will be taken to heaven - 1 Thessalonians 4:17
  3. Christ will come for His saints - 2 Thessalonians 2:1
  4. The rapture is a mystery - 1 Corinthians 15:51
  5. The righteous will be removed - 1 Thessalonians 4:17
1. True 2. False 3. True, but from John 14 & 1 Thess 4. 4. True, but not unseen. 5. True

A secret rapture can also be misread from Matthew 24, where one is taken and the other left. Taken does not mean disappears in a moment and twinkling of an eye...

This is nothing but the resurrection at the Second Coming which Jesus Christ Himself taught,

Except for the catching away (rapture) of the resurrected saints, which Christ reveals in 1 Thess 4.

Prophecy of Scripture is not written in place alone. The fullness of prophecy must be understood from all pertaining Scriptures. As with John 14 being supplemented with 1 Thess 4.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
One of the saints for eternal life, and then another will happen of the wicked to perdition, and we see it in Acts.

Correct. Jesus is here confirming Dan 12, where both good and bad are resurrected from grave unto judgment. It's the post-Millennium resurrection of the rest of the dead. That resurrection is at the end of the world, which does not include anyone remaining alive on earth.

Rev 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The blessed first resurrection is only of His saints at His return, who shall rise to meet Him in the air. The rest of the dead are of both the Millennium saints, and all the wicked dead of earth since Cain.

When Christ comes again the saints will be raised from the grave as is says, "and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" and then those saints still alive join them, as we see, "we which are alive and remain will be caught up with those that have been raised from the grave to be ever with the Lord Jesus Christ". This quote can fit nowhere else but the Second Coming of Jesus. And we are given this which clearly does away with the false "Secret Rapture" idea.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Exactly. Good work. The mystery is not a secret rapture, but the mystery of the Lord's second coming and rapture of His saints fully visible to all people on earth.

2Pe 3:3
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.


A wholly new mystery that is only believed and hoped for by the saints, and is not believed and rejected by all the people left on earth to watch it all...