the Sabbath

[Everlasting-Grace]

You are right, for those who refuse to keep the Sabbath holy, it is a damnation issue.

and here we go folks. If anyone needed any proof that these people are modern day pharisees teaching us to return to salvation by works. and rejecting the grace of God. here you have it.. Conversation is prety much over

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I would encourage you to look into this further.

maybe you need to look at this further?

Do you think if I do not worship a day as you think I should I am not going to heaven, even though I trust God with my salvatio and have received his grace gift?

I mean really????

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It is the gospel of Jesus spanning all time from before the creation of the earth.

[Rev 13:8 KJV] 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[Tit 1:2 KJV] 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
[1Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Salvation has never been by works.

The gospel of grace through faith is the gospel. not what I do or do not do. Based on my works. i am disqualified from heave and eternal life. that why Christ came to die

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

That is some low level graphic hatred right there.

You haven't learned a thing. @rogerg and other sisters and brothers targeted by anti-Sabbath hatets,pay attention.

You'll never reach those God hardens. See their other hate graphic too.

Sad.

says the person who attacked another person who called the book of the law the law of moses

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I do hate what you believe because it's contrary to the gospel. How many times do I have to tell you and your Saturday fanatic friends that I am not anti-sabbath; I am anti-sabbath-is-a-salvation-issue. I used to attend a messianic congregation on Friday evenings and they did so for cultural reasons, not a salvific one. So I do understand quite well that you and the others who insist sabbaths are a salvation issue are quite lost in the weeds and have no business teaching anyone.

Sadly, they are unable to read. they only see what they want to see. I think this is well established..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It is completely straightforward that Jesus saves us from not obeying God's law by graciously teaching us to obey it. What is ridiculous about that? In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is intrinsically His gift of saving us from not being a doer of those works.

so let e get this straight.

we are not saved from the penalty of sin (death)

we are saved to keep the law so we can save ourself by keeping the law?

so what?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

At least you admit you hate.

You're too stubborn and blind to know what Sabbath actually is.

So your calling him out for Hate. yet you do this.

ever heard of the word hypocrite.

I venture to say he probably understands the sabbath better than you do

And I don't for a minute believe you ever attended a Messianic congregation..

You talk a lot of hate. And in the process you prove you do not know the Gospel at all.

John 17:14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.

yeah yeah, You sound like A socialist liberal.. If we do not agree a man can become a woman we hate.. if we do not agree with you we hate.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Hebrews 4
English Standard Version


4 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.[a] 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,
“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”
although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” 5 And again in this passage he said,
“They shall not enter my rest.”
6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God[b] would not have spoken of another day later on. 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Jesus the Great High Priest
14 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Footnotes

1. Hebrews 4:2 Some manuscripts it did not meet with faith in the hearers
2. Hebrews 4:8 Greek he

the rest they failed to enter was the Holy Land, and the rest promised once they arrived.

Not Saturday.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to believe in/trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21) Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Jesus Christ through faith.

amen

they pump their chest thanking God they are not like us "sinners" failing to understand, the sinner went home justified. Not the one pumping his or her chest.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Jesus never condemned the Pharisees for keeping God’s commandments, He condemned them for keeping their rules over obeying God’s commandments. They added many rules to God’s law, something we are told not to do Deut 4:2 We are not to add to or take from God’s commandments as if man could ever edit something that came directly from God

Mat 15:1. Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”

3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (quoting from the Ten Commandments Exo 20:12) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

Actually he in the end condemned them because they rejected him (most did anyway)

some came to truth. Like a man named saul

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It doesn't say that is the reason they were held in captivity in Babylon is because they only broke the 7 year sabbaths, which is what we were discussing and I'll add some important context that appeared to be missing

Lev 26:1 ‘You shall not make idols for yourselves;
neither a carved image nor a sacred pillar shall you rear up for yourselves;
nor shall you set up an engraved stone in your land, to bow down to it;
for I am the Lord your God.
2 You shall [a]keep My Sabbaths and reverence My sanctuary:
I am the Lord.
3 ‘If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them,
4 then I will give you rain in its season, the land shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
5 Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing;
you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
6 I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none will make you afraid;
I will rid the land of evil[b] beasts,
and the sword will not go through your land.
7 You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you.
8 Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight;
your enemies shall fall by the sword before you.
9 ‘For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you.
10 You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.
11 I will set My [c]tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you.
12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people.
13 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that you should not be their slaves;
I have broken the bands of your yoke and made you walk [d]upright.
14 ‘But if you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments,
15 and if you despise My statutes, or if your soul abhors My judgments, so that you do not perform all My commandments, but break My covenant,
16 I also will do this to you:
I will even appoint terror over you, wasting disease and fever which shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart.
And you shall sow your seed [e]in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
17 I will [f]set My face against you, and you shall be defeated by your enemies.
Those who hate you shall reign over you, and you shall flee when no one pursues you.
18 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
19 I will break the pride of your power;
I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze.
20 And your strength shall be spent in vain;
for your land shall not yield its produce, nor shall the trees of the land yield their fruit.
21 ‘Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins.
22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, destroy your livestock, and make you few in number;
and your highways shall be desolate.
23 ‘And if by these things you are not reformed by Me, but walk contrary to Me,
24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
25 And I will bring a sword against you that will execute the vengeance of the covenant;
when you are gathered together within your cities I will send pestilence among you;
and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.

We all agree, they sinned great sins

but the reason they were removed from the land was for not observing the 7 year sabbath. and they would be left out of the land even if they repented until the number of years that failed to obey were fulfilled.


You can't wiggle out of this one my friend.

 

[vassal]

All scripture is God breathed.

• Joshua 8:31
  as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the Book of the Law of Moses: “an altar of whole stones over which no man has wielded an iron tool.” And they offered on it burnt offerings to the Lord, and sacrificed peace offerings.
  
  
• Joshua 8:32
  And there, in the presence of the children of Israel, he wrote on the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he had written.
• 1 Kings 2:3
  And keep the charge of the Lord your God: to walk in His ways, to keep His statutes, His commandments, His judgments, and His testimonies, as it is written in the Law of Moses, that you may prosper in all that you do and wherever you turn;
  
  
• 2 Chronicles 30:16
  Tey stood in their place according to their custom, according to the Law of Moses the man of God; the priests sprinkled the blood received from the hand of the Levites.
  
  
• Ezra 3:2
  Then Jeshua the son of Jozadak and his brethren the priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel and his brethren, arose and built the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings on it, as it is written in the Law of Moses the man of God.
  
  
• Nehemiah 8:1
  Now all the people gathered together as one man in the open square that was in front of the Water Gate; and they told Ezra the scribe to bring the Book of the Law of Moses, which the Lord had commanded Israel.
  
  
• Daniel 9:13
  “As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us; yet we have not made our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities and understand Your truth.
  
  
• Malachi 4:4
  “Remember the Law of Moses, My servant, Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel, With the statutes and judgments.
  
  
• Luke 2:22
  Now when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord
  
  
• John 7:23
  If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?
  
  
• Acts 13:39
  and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
  
  
• 1 Corinthians 9:9
  For it is written in the law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.” Is it oxen God is concerned about?
  
  
• Hebrews 10:28
  Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

So you see. While we all agree it is God who gave the law to moses. to call someone out for calling it the law of moses. and saying it is not the law of moses, is just another reason people decry your and those like you religiosity and pride and the thinking you have to destroy those who disagree with you any way you can.

I mean lets see

Joshua called it the law of moses
the author of Kings called it the law of moses
The author of chronicles called it the law of moses
Ezra called it the law of moses
Nehemiah called it the law of Moses
Daniel called it the law of moses
Malachi called it the law of moses
Luke called it the law of Moses
The apostle John called it the law of Moses
the apostle Paul called it the law od moses
The author of Hebrews call it the law of moses.

so when you foolishly attack someone like this.. I guess you should expect people to call you out on it. Especially when you have no basis for why you are attacking this person who called it the same thing all of these great writers of the Scripture we hold dear.

The covenant given to Israel contained the Ten Commandments, which were written by God Himself.

“So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.” (Exodus 34:28)

These commandments or covenant, were originally given to the Jews, but they were intended for all people.

Note that the 10 Commandments representing the Covenant were put in an ark specially made to contain the stone tablets where the 10 commandments or covenant , this ark is called the ARK OF THE COVENANT

The rest of the Law, which was written by Moses under God's inspiration, was added due to Israel's transgressions. In Deuteronomy 31:24-26, we see this distinction:
"So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 'Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you.'"


The entire Law, including both the Ten Commandments also called the covenant and the additional ordinances due to Israel's sin, is often referred to as the "Law of Moses." However, it’s important to recognize the distinction between the two components—the Ten Commandments being the foundational moral law, and the rest of the Law given to Moses as a response to the people's disobedience.


I also want you to understand that correcting someone or sharing the truth when they are wrong is not an attack, but an act of love. The Bible teaches us that we are to speak the truth in love, as stated in Ephesians 4:15:
"but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ."


There is only one truth, and that truth is found in the Word of God. As Jesus said in John 14:6:
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

 

[Soyeong]

so let e get this straight.

we are not saved from the penalty of sin (death)

we are saved to keep the law so we can save ourself by keeping the law?

so what?

Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin, but not from continuing to live in sin, so there must be an aspect of our salvation from sin that we are experiencing in the present by being a doer of God’s law. God did not give His law as instructions for how to save ourselves, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of His law is how He is saving us. It is contradictory to think that we can save ourselves by relying on God’s instructions. In Titus 2:14, Jesus did not just give himself to redeem us from all lawlessness, but also to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The covenant given to Israel contained the Ten Commandments, which were written by God Himself.

“So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.” (Exodus 34:28)

These commandments or covenant, were originally given to the Jews, but they were intended for all people.

Note that the 10 Commandments representing the Covenant were put in an ark specially made to contain the stone tablets where the 10 commandments or covenant , this ark is called the ARK OF THE COVENANT

The rest of the Law, which was written by Moses under God's inspiration, was added due to Israel's transgressions. In Deuteronomy 31:24-26, we see this distinction:
"So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 'Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you.'"


The entire Law, including both the Ten Commandments also called the covenant and the additional ordinances due to Israel's sin, is often referred to as the "Law of Moses." However, it’s important to recognize the distinction between the two components—the Ten Commandments being the foundational moral law, and the rest of the Law given to Moses as a response to the people's disobedience.


I also want you to understand that correcting someone or sharing the truth when they are wrong is not an attack, but an act of love. The Bible teaches us that we are to speak the truth in love, as stated in Ephesians 4:15:
"but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ."


There is only one truth, and that truth is found in the Word of God. As Jesus said in John 14:6:
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

1. they are all part of the same law
2. They were all part of Gods demand and a covenant he confirmed with them, that they had to obey every jott and tittle or they woukld be cursed.
3. The tablets of stone are called the ministers of death.
4. They were put in the ark , because when The judge looked in the ark. they saw all God had against the jews.

1. They did not keep the ten commands (guilty)
2. Manna showed that they did not keep this command
3. Arron's rod that budded showed they sinned here also.

all these things were put in the ark. on the day of atonement, Blood was splattered on the top of the ark. so when the cherub looked inside. they could not see the things which made Israel guilty. hence it is said it is atoned for or they were innocent (although guilty)

Look up the sacrificial system and how it prefigured, or pointed to the cross. hence Jesus being called the lamb of God who removes the sin of the world.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin,

you do not understand the law. or the gospel.

we have all sinned and fall short. being justified freely.

You also have it bakcwards. we can not be saved from the penalty of sin if we still sin, and that new sin has not yet been paid.. for we would need to sacrifice the son again. and put him to open shame

but not from continuing to live in sin,

Whoever lives in sin has never seen or known God. whoever is born of God can not live in sin.

so there must be an aspect of our salvation from sin that we are experiencing in the present by being a doer of God’s law. God did not give His law as instructions for how to save ourselves, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of His law is how He is saving us. It is contradictory to think that we can save ourselves by relying on God’s instructions. In Titus 2:14, Jesus did not just give himself to redeem us from all lawlessness, but also to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works.

We are saved forever. because of one sacrifice of christ and our faith in that gift.

We can;t save ourselves by being good enough. for even after we are saved, we still have not met Gods glorious requirment, we still sin and fall short.

 

[GWH]

God wrote His law in our hearts Heb 8:10, the Sabbath is God's law, He wrote it, He spoke it and claimed it as His own.

Why the Sabbath is all throughout the NT. Can you please find one verse where God abrogated His Sabbath commandment in scripture. God blessed, only God can reverse Num 23:20 so you will need a thus saith the Lord. If you can't find it your argument is with a much Higher Authority than any human.

"God wrote His law in our hearts Heb 8:10": Yes, and HB 7:11-10:1 explains that the law referenced in 8:10 is the NC Gospel of Christ:

"If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood, why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also... The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless, for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Such a high priest truly meets our need... the Son, who has been made perfect forever, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven... The ministry of Jesus has received is superior to the old one [of Moses], since the NC is established on better promises... God said, 'The days are coming when I will make a new covenant' [JR 31:31-34]. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts... By calling this covenant 'new', he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."

In that passage the Lord saith that the OC including the Sabbath commandment is obsolete/abrogated. Need GW say more? Or are you going to continue arguing with the Higher Authority?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

"God wrote His law in our hearts Heb 8:10": Yes, and HB 7:11-10:1 explains that the law referenced in 8:10 is the NC Gospel of Christ:

"If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood, why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also... The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless, for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Such a high priest truly meets our need... the Son, who has been made perfect forever, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven... The ministry of Jesus has received is superior to the old one [of Moses], since the NC is established on better promises... God said, 'The days are coming when I will make a new covenant' [JR 31:31-34]. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts... By calling this covenant 'new', he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."

In that passage the Lord saith that the OC including the Sabbath commandment is obsolete/abrogated. Need GW say more? Or are you going to continue arguing with the Higher Authority?

Hebrews 7 is referring to the law of the priesthood, the Sabbath isn't mentioned once. The law of the priesthood had to change because the law said the priesthood had to come from the tribe of Levi but Jesus came from the tribe of Judah and in order for Him to be our High Priest in the NC the law concerning the tribe of Levi was necessary of a change to accommodate Jesus. The whole context of Hebrews 7.

So, my question again, where did Jesus abrogate His Sabbath commandment? If Jesus asked us to Remember the Sabbath, but you are claiming we can now forget it, where is His commandment reversing His blessing on the Sabbath? Where did He abrogate His commandment?

 

[GWH]

Hebrews 7 is referring to the law of the priesthood, the Sabbath isn't mentioned once. The law of the priesthood had to change because the law said the priesthood had to come from the tribe of Levi but Jesus came from the tribe of Judah and in order for Him to be our High Priest in the NC the law concerning the tribe of Levi was necessary of a change to accommodate Jesus. The whole context of Hebrews 7.

So, my question again, where did Jesus abrogate His Sabbath commandment? If Jesus asked us to Remember the Sabbath, but you are claiming we can now forget it, where is His commandment reversing His blessing on the Sabbath? Where did He abrogate His commandment?

HB 7 compares the Levitical priesthood with the superior high priesthood of Jesus, and the Sabbath law was part of the Levitical laws that have been abrogated--or if you do not like my term, then do you prefer the HB synonym--made "obsolete"?

Christians view Hebrews as part of the NT apostolic canon inspired by the Lord, but obviously you do not. (You can lead a horse to water...)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Hebrews 7 is referring to the law of the priesthood, the Sabbath isn't mentioned once. The law of the priesthood had to change because the law said the priesthood had to come from the tribe of Levi but Jesus came from the tribe of Judah and in order for Him to be our High Priest in the NC the law concerning the tribe of Levi was necessary of a change to accommodate Jesus. The whole context of Hebrews 7.

So, my question again, where did Jesus abrogate His Sabbath commandment? If Jesus asked us to Remember the Sabbath, but you are claiming we can now forget it, where is His commandment reversing His blessing on the Sabbath? Where did He abrogate His commandment?

I am suprised someone who claims to know so much about the law. does not know very much at all.

the levitical priesthood had to die. because it could not save. The blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin.

It had nothing to do with it being from the trib of Levi.

 

[hornetguy]

If you don't hate evil, then you are God's enemy.

What nerve you have to presume to know something about me that you have absolutely no way of knowing. Everything you project at me is coming from your own heart. We used to meet every Shabbat in a church gym. The leader was a holocaust survivor, and we broke challah his wife made and had brandy he made.

typical snowflake.... accuses everyone of doing what she, herself has been doing all along... everything is hate, if you have the audacity to disagree. Typical....