the Sabbath

[SabbathBlessing]

That was the terms of the law at Sinai. Do you need references to them?

The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 and that has never changed. Sin is the transgression of God's law, His version 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 and we see these as the two choices blessed or cursed Rev 22:14-15

Because of sin God gave His only Son and if we have a right relationship with Him, He will give us eternal life. The bible is filled with how to have a right relationship with Christ, why the bible is a big book. Jesus came not just to take the penalty of sin, when we repent and confess, which means a change in direction, He came to show us the right way to live. He lived to be our example to follow, to follow in His footsteps 1 Peter 2:21-22 1 John 2:6 and if we abide in Him we will keep His commandments, just as He did, John 15:10 because He showed us the way. We can get off that path and make our own and follow someone else, but Jesus said: I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You might consider some here don't believe Jesus was Lord,the Lord God.

Which would explain their lack of understanding Jesus' new covenant and ministry.

I know, like stated its not for them, its the others that read silently that are open to what the bible teaches. The majority are teaching the opposite of what Jesus told us to teach, our voice is small, but needs to be heard. Jesus is coming soon!

 

[Beckworth]

The Ten Commandments and the Sabbath was not, is not just for the Jews. Do you have any idea how many references there are to the Ten Commandments, the Laws and the Sabbath just in the NT. you are misinterpreting (Col 2:16-17) He is talking to the Jews and believers telling them not to let unbelievers judge them for keeping the Commandments, his Laws. The blood sacrifice is the old mosaic Law, Moses Law. Jesus was / is our sacrificial lamb. That did not abolish the Ten Commandments. They are gods law not in any part of The old mosaic or Moses Law. Q: If the Ten Commandments
are done away with why are the commanded in the NT over and over and why did God say all flesh will come to worship him from one Sabbath to another on the newly created earth?

Have you read all of Colossians 2? How did you conclude the text is telling Jews not to let unbelievers judge them? That is totally not what that passage is saying. For one thing, there may have been some Jews there, but verses 11-13 is specifically talking to gentiles who were “UNCIRCUMCISED IN THe FLESH!” Verse 6 says they had received Christ so these were gentile Christians, not Jews, according to the scripture. Verse 14 says He “WIPED THEM OUT” specifically talking about the Jewish laws and commandments. He even gives us some examples— laws concerning food ( clean and unclean foods) and drink ( Nazarite vows prohibited drinking wine or grape juice), keeping certain festivals like Pentecost or celebrating new moons. and KEEPING SABBATHS. These were all JEWISH LAWS, not gentile laws. These were wiped out. If not, then you tell me what was “wiped out?” He’s telling gentiles don’t you let Jews judge you for not keeping these old laws because they have been “wiped out”, done away, when Christ died on the cross. Hebrews 7:12 says that Christ changed the law. Christians were not judged by the Jewish law but by His new law. Hebrews 10:9 says He took away the first law or testament, so that He could establish the SECOND law or testament which is His New Testament law.
Hebrews 8:13- God says, a NEW covenant )testament), He has made that FIRST covenant (testament) OBSOLETE!!!! Now what is obsolete and growing old is ready to VANISH AWAY!! These are God’s words not mine. If you reject what God says you will be among those religious people in Matthew 7 that God says “depart from me, I never knew you.

 

[Aaron56]

The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 and that has never changed. Sin is the transgression of God's law, His version 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 and we see these as the two choices blessed or cursed Rev 22:14-15

Because of sin God gave His only Son and if we have a right relationship with Him, He will give us eternal life. The bible is filled with how to have a right relationship with Christ, why the bible is a big book. Jesus came not just to take the penalty of sin, when we repent and confess, which means a change in direction, He came to show us the right way to live. He lived to be our example to follow, to follow in His footsteps 1 Peter 2:21-22 1 John 2:6 and if we abide in Him we will keep His commandments, just as He did, John 15:10 because He showed us the way. We can get off that path and make our own and follow someone else, but Jesus said: I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Whenever you see "law" you should not insert "law given at Sinai". It makes for bad religion.

Also, whenever you see "commandment" you should not insert "the 10 Commandments given at Sinai)". It also makes for bad religion.

The "law of God" is the fullness of His character. Like gravity, it is immutable.
"Commandments" from God are all through the New Testament. The Holy Spirit would speak to the believers to tell them what to do. This is very different than writing things on stone so that the people could read them.

"But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?"

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Whenever you see "law" you should not insert "law given at Sinai". It makes for bad religion.

Also, whenever you see "commandment" you should not insert "the 10 Commandments given at Sinai)". It also makes for bad religion.

The "law of God" is the fullness of His character. Like gravity, it is immutable.
"Commandments" from God are all through the New Testament. The Holy Spirit would speak to the believers to tell them what to do. This is very different than writing things on stone so that the people could read them.

"But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?"

God defined the Ten Commandments as "My commandments" Exo 20:6 right in the unit of Ten that He wrote and He spoke.

Is there someone greater than He to define His law?

Did that change in the NT?

Not according to Jesus

Mat 15:3 He (Jesus) answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (quoting right from the Ten Commandments) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

What commandments?

15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of them 1 John 2:4). The commandments are a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 and James says you break one commandment quoting from the Ten we break them all. James 2:10-12


Seems like your disagreement is not with me.

 

[Cameron143]

God defined the Ten Commandments as "My commandments" Exo 20:6 right in the unit of Ten that He wrote and He spoke.

Is there someone greater than He to define His law?

Did that change in the NT?

Not according to Jesus

Mat 15:3 He (Jesus) answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (quoting right from the Ten Commandments) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

What commandments?

15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of them 1 John 2:4). The commandments are a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 and James says you break one commandment quoting from the Ten we break them all. James 2:10-12


Seems like your disagreement is not with me.

Are there commandments in the Bible that didn't originate with God?

 

[Aaron56]

God defined the Ten Commandments as "My commandments" Exo 20:6 right in the unit of Ten that He wrote and He spoke.

Yes, of course. The people could only receive what was written.

Now, with God's character written on our hearts, we may be as He is as the Spirit leads us: lay on hands to give the Spirit, healing, life, speak words of change and encouragement, show people that He knows them, etc. In the Spirit we speak the words of "Son" because we are included in the Son who died to the law at Sinai and was raised with new life.

 

[Beckworth]

He is talking to the Jews and the believers, telling them not to let anyone, non-believers judge them in these things. To hold fast to their beliefs and in keeping the Sabbath holy.

No, that is NOT what he is talking about. Verse 11-13 specifically says these were “uncircumcised in the flesh!” These are gentile Christians —not Jewish Christians. All Jews were circumcised in the flesh or they were not Jews. Tell me what was “wiped out?” That’s the point. He is telling gentile Christians these old Jewish laws are “wiped out”, taken away, no longer binding on anyone—not even Jews because everyone now, Jew and Gentile must come to Christ. He tells us what laws were “wiped out”. Laws concerning food—the Jewish law of clean and unclean foods-has been wiped out! That’s the point of the vision that Peter saw in Acts 10. Laws concerning drink—the old Jewish Nazarite laws forbid drinking wine or grape juice.—wiped out! Laws concerning frstivals like “Pentecost”, a Jewish festival—wiped out! Laws concerning new moons/-these were Jewish laws;—wiped out. laws concerning SABBATHS—wiped out!! These were Jewish laws and they have all been wiped out! That’s what Paul us telling these gentiles not to let Jewish Christians or anyone else judge them or bind these old laws on them.

This harmonizes perfectly with what Hebrews tells us. Hebrews 7:12 tells us specifically that Christ CHANGED THE LAW. From the old law of Moses to the new law of Christ in the New Testament.

Hebrews 10:9 God took away the FIRST (covenant or testament) so that He could establish the SECOND ( testament—the New Testament.)

Hebrews 8:13 says, “ In that He says a New Covenant, He has made the first OBSOLETE. Now what is old (testament) and OBSOLETE is ready to VANISH AWAY.

It doesn’t get any plainer than this.
Galations 5:4 says if you try to hold on to that old law and keep it YOU ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE. It’s serious.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Yes, of course. The people could only receive what was written.

Now, with God's character written on our hearts, we may be as He is as the Spirit leads us: lay on hands to give the Spirit, healing, life, speak words of change and encouragement, show people that He knows them, etc. In the Spirit we speak the words of "Son" because we are included in the Son who died to the law at Sinai and was raised with new life.

The only thing that changed is the placement of the law- from tables of stone to tablets of the heart God promised the words He would not alter Psa 89:34 the New Covenant is established on better promises Heb 8:6 not better laws as God's law is perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 why the NC still has God's law, now written in the heart Heb 8:10 based on the better promises of God doing, we just need to cooperate with Him John 14:15-18 Rom 8:7-8

 

[Inquisitor]

Is the solution to ...

1. Get ride of the law.
2. Or pay the penalty of the law.

Jesus paid the penalty for transgressing the law. He didn't remove the law.

If He just removed the law then His death was not needed.

We are not free to break the law. We are free from the penalty of the law.

Love is the motivation that prevents us from continuing to sin.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

But Jesus did remove the law.

You do not pay any attention to the law what so ever, that is, over 600 of those laws.

Your trying to tell me that the law still prevails?

You freely admit that over 600 laws are dead in the water!

So did Jesus fulfill the codified law or not?

The law is no longer in force and that is a fact and that is beyond any debate.

 

[Inquisitor]

Is the solution to ...

1. Get ride of the law.
2. Or pay the penalty of the law.

Jesus paid the penalty for transgressing the law. He didn't remove the law.

If He just removed the law then His death was not needed.

We are not free to break the law. We are free from the penalty of the law.

Love is the motivation that prevents us from continuing to sin.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Jesus got rid of the law and your life is a testimony of that.

You don't even know over 600 of those laws that are obsolete.

Nor do you even mention those 600.

Did Jesus get rid of the written law?

Anyone who tells you that Jesus did not fulfill the law fully, is deeply deceived.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound,
so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

The law at Mt Sinai was all the letter of the law and all the law was spoken by God Himself.

The written law in it's entirety was abolished.

You cannot quote the letter of the law in Exodus!

 

[Magenta]

But Jesus did remove the law.

You do not pay any attention to the law what so ever, that is, over 600 of those laws.

Your trying to tell me that the law still prevails?

You freely admit that over 600 laws are dead in the water!

So did Jesus fulfill the codified law or not?

The law is no longer in force and that is a fact and that is beyond any debate.

One person (at least, that I know of) has claimed the 613 mitzvot are written on our hearts.

Which is of course a ridiculous claim for them to make.

 

[Aaron56]

The only thing that changed is the placement of the law- from tables of stone to tablets of the heart God promised the words He would not alter Psa 89:34 the New Covenant is established on better promises Heb 8:6 not better laws as God's law is perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 why the NC still has God's law, now written in the heart Heb 8:10 based on the better promises of God doing, we just need to cooperate with Him John 14:15-18 Rom 8:7-8

No, the law at Sinai was given because of transgression, ministered by angels.

The law of God's character came in the form of His Son for all to behold. Those who receive the promised Holy Spirit, by grace through faith, understand this.

 

[Inquisitor]

In Deuteronomy 5:12-15, the Israelites are reminded to observe the Sabbath in remembrance of their deliverance from Egypt. “Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you… and remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm…” (Deuteronomy 5:12-15).

Well, we know that Rome did not have the letter of the law.

Rome worked seven days a week like every other nation.

So it's obvious that no Roman could obey a sabbath day.

Why is that?

The simple answer is Rome never had the written law and the written law was only given to Israel.
Your quotation testifies to that.

The Israelites were not reminded to obey the sabbath they were commanded to obey the sabbath.

 

[vassal]

No, the law at Sinai was given because of transgression, ministered by angels.

The law of God's character came in the form of His Son for all to behold. Those who receive the promised Holy Spirit, by grace through faith, understand this.

"ministered by angels", what do you mean by that?

 

[Inquisitor]

One person (at least, that I know of) has claimed the 613 mitzvot are written on our hearts.

Which is of course a ridiculous claim for them to make.

They are seriously out of control.

Why do these laws have such a powerful effect on certain people?

They fail to understand what Paul was saying in his letters.

They fail to recognize the ten commandments were the letter of the law.

How do you make them understand what the letter of the law means?

How do you make them understand what "grace" actually means?

 

[Magenta]

They are seriously out of control.

Why do these laws have such a powerful effect on certain people?

They fail to understand what Paul was saying in his letters.

They fail to recognize the ten commandments were the letter of the law.

How do you make them understand what the letter of the law means?

How do you make them understand what "grace" actually means?

Only God can open their eyes.

Isaiah 42:16 ~ I will lead the blind by a way they did not know; I will guide them on unfamiliar paths. I will turn darkness into light before them and rough places into level ground. These things I will do for them, and I will not forsake them.

 

[Inquisitor]

No, the law at Sinai was given because of transgression, ministered by angels.

The law of God's character came in the form of His Son for all to behold. Those who receive the promised Holy Spirit, by grace through faith, understand this.

I do not understand the phrase 'ministered by angels', I will look that up later.

 

[Magenta]

I do not understand the phrase 'ministered by angels', I will look that up later.

Galatians 3:18-19

For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God freely granted it
to Abraham through a promise. 19Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until
the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred. It was administered through angels by a mediator.

 

[Inquisitor]

Only God can open their eyes.

Isaiah 42:16 ~ I will lead the blind by a way they did not know; I will guide them on unfamiliar paths. I will turn darkness into light before them and rough places into level ground. These things I will do for them, and I will not forsake them.

Or perhaps an inquisition would also open their eyes.

The inquisitions ceased in 1830.

That was around the time that many Christian sects fired up.

There is something in that.

Mwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.