It's there in your bible. You're not reading the 10 from stone tablets; you're reading what Moses wrote in a scroll
the Sabbath
- Thread starter dlj57
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
It's there in your bible. You're not reading the 10 from stone tablets; you're reading what Moses wrote in a scroll
Deuteronomy 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He (God) wrote them on two tablets of stone
Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He (God) wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Exo 32:16 16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.
Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He (God) wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.
Your disagreement is not with me. It can't be more clear.
Jesus was declaring that it's the spirit behind the commandments that it important, not the letters. The righteousness of all of the law's commandments is accomplished when a person loves their neighbor as themselves. That's not a burden though it takes a lot of inward work. Keeping the letters of the 10 commandments and all of the law was an unbearable burden according to Peter
So Jesus was teaching we can commit adultery and commit murder? Not a chance. He said not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19 and came with a pretty stern warning I think we ought to take more serious.
I'm sorry I can't reason with one who uses their own words against God's Word as if they are the same. But I wish you well, even if that's not reciprocated, I just do not see a point in continuing.
No longer about the stone tablets but the heart.
2 cor 3:3
It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
Agree, Jesus wrote the commandments on stone and now they are tablets of the heart, He internalized His law and wrote it in the heart where sin begins, enabling us to keep them though His power John 14:15-18. Its still a sin to break God's law Rom 7:71 John 3:4 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12 but the New Covenant is based on better promises Heb 8:6 and has God the one doing, which is a much better promise than us trying to keep on our own. If we are keeping the spirit of the law, the letter would automatically be kept as the spirit is greater than the letter, not lessor. Breaking the letter of the law we are not walking in His Spirit as Paul said was the carnal mind who does not subject themselves to God's law Rom 8:7-8
Paul never taught against what Jesus taught or what Jesus kept, he was a faithful servant to Christ Rom 1:1 and a servant is never greater than there master or greater than the one who sent him John 13:16
Paul's writing are very tricky and come with a serious warning. 2 Peter 3:16 Did Jesus ever tell us not to keep God's commandments? He condemned those who did. Was Paul teaching one to sin Rom 7:7 and dishonor God Rom 2:22-23 not a chances.
Maybe this will help with Cor 2:3 as there's a lot there and not to be read without a lot of careful and prayerful study
In verses 1-3 we have an introduction to a new section which contains an allusion to the Ten Commandments and the New Covenant:
- First, there were, apparently, “letters of recommendation” that ministers were caring at this time, possibly for the purpose of avoiding false teachers, but it seems like in Paul’s view, a true “letter of recommendation” was the changed lives of the people he ministered to which was evident outwardly (verses 1-2).
- The reason for their change is because they have the New Covenant. Verse 3 is using New Covenant language (in fact we are sure of this, because verse 6 says “new covenant”). It says that they’re lives are letters written by the Spirit in the heart, and not by ink on “tablets of stone,” an allusion or quick hint to the Ten Commandments.
- A good hermeneutical move is to always go to where the author is referring or alluding to, in order to better understand what he means. Paul is borrowing New Covenant language directly from the actual prophecy about the New Covenant in Jer. 31:30-33 (cf. Ezek. 36:26-27). In Jeremiah 31:33, we read that God will write His “laws” in their mind and hearts. Since Paul, while speaking about this New Covenant, alludes to the Ten Commandments (tablets of stone), the law in this prophecy is the Ten Commandments being written in another location, the mind and heart.
- The New Covenant is, therefore, a total transformation of the heart, where sins are forgiven and forgotten, God’s Law is written in the heart by the Spirit, and people begin to actually live righteous lives (cf. Jer. 31:34, Ezek. 36:26-27). The Law can only be obeyed by the power of God’s Spirit.
- Therefore, the lives of the Corinthian Christians are living manifestations of God’s law. It was not abolished for them (which Mr. Tucker repeatedly says). On the contrary, their lives manifest obedience to it.
- This is the immediate context, and obviously what follows after this will not mean that the Ten Commandments was abolished for the Christian, since it is written in their hearts. The change was in location, from tablets of stone to “fleshy tables of the heart.”
- QUESTION: However, if what follows will show that the Ten commandments were abolished for the Christian, why are they still playing a role in the lives of Christians? Provide examples. See: Eph. 6:1-3 (actually, the whole letter of Ephesians alludes to various commandments to not break them, see 4:25 28, 29, 31, 5:3-5, 6), Rom. 3:31, 7:7-12, especially verse 13).
- In verse 4, Paul says that he is fully confident that they are living New Covenant lives which manifest obedience to the Ten Commandments from the heart rather than from tablets of stones (verses 2-3), because his trust is “through Christ toward God” and not in the work they did for them.
- Nevertheless, God made Paul the minister of this New Covenant, not of the letter, which previously was on stone and ink, but of the Spirit, which is now the Law written in the heart (verse 6a).
- The last clause of verse 6, and also verses 7 and 9 speak of the Law as something that kills, brings death and condemns. Why?
- Paul does not here say how the Law kills, but he does in Romans 7:7-13. It kills by revealing the source of death, which is sin! Compared with Psalm 119:86-88:
“All Your commandments are faithful; They persecute me wrongfully; Help me! They almost made an end of me on earth, But I did not forsake Your precepts. Revive me according to Your lovingkindness, So that I may KEEP the testimony of Your mouth.” (Psa. 119:86-88. Note: Comparing the “commandments” here to Rom. 7:7, we learn that the specific laws that kill are the Ten Commandments, since Paul quotes from the tenth one to make his point). - Psalm 119:86-88 may be referring to David’s enemies as the persecutors, but the clauses of each sentence indicate that the Law has a special function of revealing sin, especially when we compare them to Romans 7:7-13, which also speak of the commandments as something that kills, yet continues to be desirable by Paul.
- We learn from these references that: 1. The law kills in the sense that it reveals sin by pointing to our faults, and 2. This, however, should motivate us to obey it to be in harmony with it.
SECTION 3: TWO MINISTRATIONS: VERSE 9:
This is what we get from the immediate context. The first three verses demonstrate what the lives of New Covenant believers look like. They have the Law of God written in the heart, and it is quite evident. They are, as Paul puts it, living epistles, “known and read by all men.” Paul borrows language from the New Covenant in Jer. 31:33 and alludes to the Ten Commandments when he mentioned the “tablets of stones.” In other words, these Corinthians believers have the Ten Commandments written in their hearts, as promised in the New Covenant prophecy, and everyone can see it by their lives and acts. We know it is “ten” commandments, which includes the fourth, because the “tablets of stone” contained ten, not nine. Therefore, all Ten Commandments are written in their hearts, and as the other nine are practiced both spiritually and practically, so with the fourth one. Anyone living the New Covenant experience, therefore, will not be going around claiming that the Law “ended for believers.”
The conclusion drawn is that the first few verses speak about the Law written in the heart and lived out by the Corinthians believers, what follows after verse 3, therefore, does not abolish the Law. A careful look at the remaining verses reveal that indeed something was abolished, and that was the old ministration of the Law under Moses, along Moses himself and the tablets of stone. The contents of the Law, however, were transferred to the heart. A comparison with verse 13 with the actual story Paul is talking about, found in Exo. 34:29-35, reveals that what was abolished was that which “the children of Israel could NOT look steadily at…” In Exo. 34, the tablets of stone were in plain view in the hands of Moses, but his face was covered. Nevertheless, there is no longer a need for the stone tablets, not that its contents are in the mind and hearts of New Covenant believers.
Not only does the immediate context not allow for the contents of the tablets to be abolished, Paul says in Rom. 3:31 that the Law is NOT made “void” to believers. The Greek word translated “void” is the same one translated “abolished” or “passing away” in 2 Cor. 3.
2 Cor. 3 also explains that the tablets of stone are referred to as the “ministration of death” and “condemnation.” This is because, as Paul explains elsewhere, the Ten Commandments reveal sin, and sin brings death (see Rom. 7:7-11, cf. James. 1:15). Nevertheless, the commandment that does this is considered “holy, just and good” and that which is good does NOT become death to believers (see verses 12-13). Of course, because as 2 Cor. 3 says, it is written in the heart.
https://adventdefenseleague.com/202...e-to-an-adventist-critic-2-corinthians-3.html
- The ministration of RIGHTEOUSNESS
- The ministration of CONDEMNATION
- LET US ASSUME THE TEXT MEANS THE LAW WAS ABOLISHED AS WELL. Various problems arise:
–ONE: The immediate context says it is written in the heart (verses 2-3, cf. Jer. 31:33).
–TWO: In Rom. 7:13 Paul asks, “Has then what is good (the commandment, verse 12) made death unto me?” His answer is a resounding, “certainly not!.”
-No, because Paul also wrote that faith establishes, rather then abolishes, the law (Rom. 3:31).
-No, because David, speaking of the same law that kills, views that as a good thing, and asks God to help him even more to keep it! (cf. Psa. 119:86-88). - Compare verses 7 and 13 to Romans 3:21. Same Greek word: katargeo.
- The same Greek word in verse 7 is used in verse 13. Both mention what the Israelites could NOT look upon
- According to verses 7-13, the following things were abolished:
-The ministration under Moses which included the ministry under the Old Dispensation, including the tablets of stone and, by implication, the entire earthly Sanctuary service, to be replaced with the ministration of the Spirit, with fleshy tablets and, by implication, a heavenly Sanctuary (cf. Heb. 8:2).
-The face of Moses, his leadership, being replaced by the face of Christ, as the new High Priest. - The tablets would not be necessary when its contents are lived out in the lives of believers. Christians should not be trying to measure up to standards that have not convicted their minds and transformed their thoughts. God wants people to want to do right, and He does this by writing His moral principles in their hearts as He previously wrote them on stone. The stones are no longer needed when its principles are lived and obeyed. Once again, believers would NOT insist on abolishing the Law if they truly have it written in the heart.
This is what we get from the immediate context. The first three verses demonstrate what the lives of New Covenant believers look like. They have the Law of God written in the heart, and it is quite evident. They are, as Paul puts it, living epistles, “known and read by all men.” Paul borrows language from the New Covenant in Jer. 31:33 and alludes to the Ten Commandments when he mentioned the “tablets of stones.” In other words, these Corinthians believers have the Ten Commandments written in their hearts, as promised in the New Covenant prophecy, and everyone can see it by their lives and acts. We know it is “ten” commandments, which includes the fourth, because the “tablets of stone” contained ten, not nine. Therefore, all Ten Commandments are written in their hearts, and as the other nine are practiced both spiritually and practically, so with the fourth one. Anyone living the New Covenant experience, therefore, will not be going around claiming that the Law “ended for believers.”
The conclusion drawn is that the first few verses speak about the Law written in the heart and lived out by the Corinthians believers, what follows after verse 3, therefore, does not abolish the Law. A careful look at the remaining verses reveal that indeed something was abolished, and that was the old ministration of the Law under Moses, along Moses himself and the tablets of stone. The contents of the Law, however, were transferred to the heart. A comparison with verse 13 with the actual story Paul is talking about, found in Exo. 34:29-35, reveals that what was abolished was that which “the children of Israel could NOT look steadily at…” In Exo. 34, the tablets of stone were in plain view in the hands of Moses, but his face was covered. Nevertheless, there is no longer a need for the stone tablets, not that its contents are in the mind and hearts of New Covenant believers.
Not only does the immediate context not allow for the contents of the tablets to be abolished, Paul says in Rom. 3:31 that the Law is NOT made “void” to believers. The Greek word translated “void” is the same one translated “abolished” or “passing away” in 2 Cor. 3.
2 Cor. 3 also explains that the tablets of stone are referred to as the “ministration of death” and “condemnation.” This is because, as Paul explains elsewhere, the Ten Commandments reveal sin, and sin brings death (see Rom. 7:7-11, cf. James. 1:15). Nevertheless, the commandment that does this is considered “holy, just and good” and that which is good does NOT become death to believers (see verses 12-13). Of course, because as 2 Cor. 3 says, it is written in the heart.
https://adventdefenseleague.com/202...e-to-an-adventist-critic-2-corinthians-3.html
Do you really think the spirit of adultery and murder is behind the letters of the 10 commandments? Why do you keep saying that?
I'm not, you are when saying we don't have to keep the letter of God's law which is not what Jesus taught. He was teaching if He changes our thoughts of anger and contempt towards our neighbor thou shalt not murder, the letter, would automatically be kept. This is what Jesus wants and what it means to walk in the spirit of the law- it is greater than the letter, not lessor. If one is breaking the letter without sorrow or trying to overcome, which means a change in direction, they are not walking in the Spirit, they are walking in the flesh (sin) Rom 8:7-8 and Jesus said breaking the least of these commandments is sin and one would be in fear of Judgement Mat 5:19-30
You're the only one who is associating the spirit behind the law with adultery and murder. No one else here that I know of conceives of such a thing
Try reading Mat 5:19-30 I would consider always praying before reading and ask His guidance in understanding His Word.
Sorry it's already embedded in the thread. I mean people have already quoted it and are replying to it, so it would affect the whole thread if I removed it.
Not what the fourth Commandment says at all...
Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Notice when the Sabbath was given, The seventh day of creation. Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel, was still about 2000years in the future
Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."
Here we find Abraham keeping God's Commandments before Isaac, Israel's father, is born.
What about the NT?
Paul kept the Sabbath and taught on it...
Act 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
Act 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews.
Act 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
same custom as Christ...
Luk_4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.
Paul taught the gentiles on the Sabbath...
Act_13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
Why didn't Paul just say come on back tomorrow, the first day of the week?
Now is there NT instruction to keep the Sabbath?
Heb 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";
Heb 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
The word for rest here is...
G4520
σαββατισμός
sabbatismos
sab-bat-is-mos'
From a derivative of G4521; a “sabbatism”, that is, (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven): - rest.
Derived from G4521
G4521
σάββατον
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.
Funny how the one Commandment God told us to remember is the one everyone wants to forget.
Oh and if this command was given to Israel, then think about this...
Gal_6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
And who did God make the New Covenant with?
Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Finding fault with them,
Psa 95:10 For forty years I was grieved with that generation, And said, 'It is a people who go astray in their hearts, And they do not know My ways.'
Psa 95:11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.' "
The problem was not the Law, it was their hard, unconverted heart.
This is exactly correct. The righteousness required by the letter is accomplished when walking after the spirit of Christ. Therefore the letters are obsolete, except for instructional purposes
Funny, Jesus seemed to think the Law would be around for a while...
Mat 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Pretty sure not all is fulfilled yet. Case in point is the Second Coming.
All righteousness was definitely fulfilled at the cross. That's what he was referring to
This was fulfilled at the cross
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Daniel 9:24 (MT)
Seventy periods of seven were rendered concise upon your people, and upon the holy city, to finish off sin, and to set a seal upon sins, and to wipe out the lawless deeds, and to atone for iniquities, and to bring eternal righteousness, and to set a seal upon vision and prophecy, and to anoint the holy of holies. Daniel 9:24 (LXX)
- Status