the Sabbath

[Pasifika]

So it’s just a one sided relationship. God does everything and we do what we want. No one sided relationship survives and either does our relationship with Christ.

If we don’t even allow God to be God and define His own law which He did, He spoke it, He wrote it, He numbered it by design but if we tell God I don’t want your law, the Holy Spirit has no place to work on our hearts to come out our rebellion.

It’s why everything is conditional. Not everyone who says Lord Lord will be saved. Mat 7:21-23
Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in sin Heb 10:26-30

Its why the promises are conditional

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

But we are not doing the work God is we just have to cooperate with Him.

yes one sided..its ALL Gods work. so no boasting but give thanks to Him

 

[SabbathBlessing]

yes one sided..its ALL Gods work. so no boasting but give thanks to Him

It’s His work in us that saves. Did Jesus keep the commandments and said if we love Him He will enable us to keep the same commandments? John 15:10 1 John 2:6 John 14:15-18

I would hate to be in this position when He comes

Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[Inquisitor]

So it’s just a one sided relationshi?. God does everything and we do what we want. No one sided relationship survives and either does our relationship with Christ.

If we don’t even allow God to be God and define His own law which He did, He spoke it, Exo 20:1 He wrote it Exo 31:10, He numbered it by design Exo 34:28 and claimed it as His own Exo 20:6 , not much more He could have done, but if we tell God I don’t want your law, the Holy Spirit has no place to work on our hearts to come out our rebellion.

It’s why everything is conditional. Not everyone who says Lord Lord will be saved. Mat 7:21-23
Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in sin Heb 10:26-30

Its why the promises are conditional

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

But we are not doing the work, God is we just have to cooperate with Him.

If folk are given the Holy Spirit.

When do they receive the Holy Spirit?

When they are Christian or when they are unbelievers?

Is grace a conditional proposition?

 

[Pasifika]

It’s His work in us that saves. Did Jesus keep the commandments and said if we love Him He will enable us to keep the same commandments? John 15:10 1 John 2:6 John 14:15-18

I would hate to be in this position when He comes

Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

yes then its wise to look at ourselves if we accomplish ALL instead of telling others they are do lawlessness and yet we are the worst one within our hearts..

 

[SabbathBlessing]

If folk are given the Holy Spirit.

When do they receive the Holy Spirit?

When they are Christian or when they are unbelievers?

Is grace a conditional proposition?

The Holy Spirit only resides in those who abide in Him.

The Holy SPirit will convict us of sin and rebellion Heb 3:7-8 John 16:8 so we can be brought into the fold, if we hear His voice. If our heart is harden, nothing for the Holy Spirit to work on, why receiving the Holy Spirit is conditional based on our love, obedience and faith.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

yes then its wise to look at ourselves if we accomplish ALL instead of telling others they are do lawlessness and yet we are the worst one within our hearts..

We should look at ourselves first no doubt, but Jesus told us to teach each other the commandments and condemned those who break and teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21, we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30. Our time on this earth is drawing to a close, we need to be sure we have a right relationship with Christ, because He will Judge us as promised, while we are saved by grace, we have to get through Judgement first. Why He said, repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand. Repent means turn from sin , turn towards God- a complete change of heart.

 

[Pasifika]

We should look at ourselves first no doubt, but Jesus told us to teach each other the commandments and condemned those who break and teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21, we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30. Our time on this earth is drawing to a close, we need to be sure we have a right relationship with Christ, because He will Judge us as promised, while we are saved by grace, we have to get through Judgement first. Why He said, repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand. Repent means turn from sin , turn towards God- a complete change of heart.

we can qualify teach others if we ourselves have accomplish the work. if Not is just a case of blind leading the blind..see 2Pet 2:18-20 as an example.

 

[Inquisitor]

The Holy Spirit only resides in those who abide in Him.

The Holy SPirit will convict us of sin and rebellion Heb 3:7-8 John 16:8 so we can be brought into the fold, if we hear His voice. If our heart is harden, nothing for the Holy Spirit to work on, why receiving the Holy Spirit is conditional based on our love, obedience and faith.

Galatians 3:2
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law,
or by hearing with faith?

Sabbath obedience obviously is not a precondition for reception of the Holy Spirit.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

we can qualify teach others if we ourselves have accomplish the work. if Not is just a case of blind leading the blind..see 2Pet 2:18-20 as an example.

The blind leading the blind are the ones who keep their rules in lieu of God's commandments, at least that's what Jesus taught Mat 15:1-14 Mat 5:19-20

But if you do not want to hear about the Sabbath commandment, there is other threads out there not on this topic. I believe the reason Jesus wanted us to teach each other the commandments, because He didn't want us to forget them. But we have free will on what we believe and what we accept. It all gets sorted out soon enough. Thanks for the chat.

 

[Inquisitor]

We should look at ourselves first no doubt, but Jesus told us to teach each other the commandments and condemned those who break and teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21, we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30. Our time on this earth is drawing to a close, we need to be sure we have a right relationship with Christ, because He will Judge us as promised, while we are saved by grace, we have to get through Judgement first. Why He said, repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand. Repent means turn from sin , turn towards God- a complete change of heart.

When and how are we judged?

John 3:18
The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already,
because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

2 Thessalonians 2:12
in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

1 Corinthians 11:31
But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.

1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Galatians 3:2
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law,
or by hearing with faith?

Sabbath obedience obviously is not a precondition for reception of the Holy Spirit.

We are not saved by keeping the law, we are saved by the blood of Jesus through faith. The law is kept not to be saved, but because one loves Jesus so much and wants to do what He asks through love and faith and to follow His example because He showed us the righteous way to live. However that said the law Paul is referring to is circumcision Gal 2:3, he contrasted circumcision with the commandments of God and said keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1 Cor 7:19

Anyway, I don't think we will agree and that's ok, I wish you well.

 

[rrcn]

Galatians 3:2
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law,
or by hearing with faith?

Sabbath obedience obviously is not a precondition for reception of the Holy Spirit.

An interesting conclusion but the 10 commandments are still binding, obedience to the commandments is not legalism.

[Jhn 14:15-18 KJV] 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

 

[Inquisitor]

The blind leading the blind are the ones who keep their rules in lieu of God's commandments, at least that's what Jesus taught Mat 15:1-14 Mat 5:19-20

But if you do not want to hear about the Sabbath commandment, there is other threads out there not on this topic. I believe the reason Jesus wanted us to teach each other the commandments, because He didn't want us to forget them. But we have free will on what we believe and what we accept. It all gets sorted out soon enough. Thanks for the chat.

Other commandments such as do not eat pork or do not eat shellfish?

That's what you preach.

Doctrine number 22.

Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain
from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures. Since alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and the irresponsible
use of drugs and narcotics are harmful to our bodies, we are to abstain from them as well.

Your one of those rare churches that have dietary laws in your doctrine.

 

[Inquisitor]

We are not saved by keeping the law, we are saved by the blood of Jesus through faith. The law is kept not to be saved, but because one loves Jesus so much and wants to do what He asks through love and faith and to follow His example because He showed us the righteous way to live. However that said the law Paul is referring to is circumcision Gal 2:3, he contrasted circumcision with the commandments of God and said keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1 Cor 7:19

Anyway, I don't think we will agree and that's ok, I wish you well.

Here is what you said.

"The Holy SPirit will convict us of sin and rebellion Heb 3:7-8 John 16:8 so we can be brought into the fold."

Learn the law, obey the law, only then you can receive the Holy Spirit.

"why receiving the Holy Spirit is conditional based on our love, obedience and faith."

Some how you managed to reverse everything Christ has done for us.

Jesus said, believe and receive.

Your saying do the law, love and have faith, then receive?

And to, top it all off, you say that the free gift of salvation is conditional.

Astounding, remarkable, that you can reverse the gospel of Jesus Christ!

 

[Inquisitor]

An interesting conclusion but the 10 commandments are still binding, obedience to the commandments is not legalism.

[Jhn 14:15-18 KJV] 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Are the 10 codified in Exodus 20?

 

[Inquisitor]

An interesting conclusion but the 10 commandments are still binding, obedience to the commandments is not legalism.

[Jhn 14:15-18 KJV] 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Let's get down to business.

Is not eating Pork binding?

 

[Pasifika]

The blind leading the blind are the ones who keep their rules in lieu of God's commandments, at least that's what Jesus taught Mat 15:1-14 Mat 5:19-20

But if you do not want to hear about the Sabbath commandment, there is other threads out there not on this topic. I believe the reason Jesus wanted us to teach each other the commandments, because He didn't want us to forget them. But we have free will on what we believe and what we accept. It all gets sorted out soon enough. Thanks for the chat.

its the Holy Spirit that teaches us not any man. As i mentioned before the Sabbath commandment is only be able to keep under the NC way Not the Old way. You seems Not be able to dinguish the two hence why we keep going like this.

 

[Pasifika]

An interesting conclusion but the 10 commandments are still binding, obedience to the commandments is not legalism.

[Jhn 14:15-18 KJV] 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

The 10 are be able to keep under these commandments of Love God and Neighbours

 

[vassal]

Jms 2:17- 'James says, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (James 2:26). Faith without works is a dead faith because the lack of works reveals an unchanged life or a spiritually dead heart. There are many verses that say that true saving faith will result in a transformed life, that faith is demonstrated by the works we do. How we live reveals what we believe and whether the faith we profess to have is a living faith.

However, the criminal on the Cross was saved because He received Jesus. You might say he 'acted' by asking Jesus to save him.

the criminal next to the cross was saved because he repented! and also it is Jesus who decides, ie. judges, being one with GOD he can do what he wants, it was his will.

 

[vassal]

Not if you demand a literal reading of the scripture.

No church teaching, no tradition, no theology, just a literal reading.

You can set the conditions that Chat GPT will follow.

Chat GPT does a very good job of reading the text.

Let's have a look at the SDA and it's teaching.

Are the teachings of the Seventh Day Adventist church correct or are they conformed to an interpretation of the Bible? Does the SDA follow an old interpretation that Catholics and Reformers employed in reading the text? This is a tough question for you to answer. Please pay special attention to Romans 10 and Ephesians 2:8.

ChatGPT said:

Your question is thoughtful and nuanced, and I'll approach it carefully with a focus on literal New Testament text as requested, while considering the broader context of your inquiry. Let’s address the key parts:
1. Are the teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) Church correct or conformed to an interpretation of the Bible?
The SDA Church holds specific doctrines that are interpretations of the Bible, influenced by its unique theological framework. For example:

• The Sabbath: The SDA emphasizes observing the seventh day (Saturday) as the Sabbath, citing Exodus 20:8-11 and Jesus' own observance of the Sabbath in the Gospels.
• Dietary Laws: They often follow Old Testament dietary laws (e.g., Leviticus 11) as guidelines for health.
• The Second Coming: They stress a literal, visible return of Christ based on texts like 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

These teachings stem from the SDA Church's interpretation of the Bible, particularly their understanding of Old Testament laws and apocalyptic passages, such as Daniel and Revelation.
While these views claim a biblical foundation, they represent an interpretive approach. For instance, their emphasis on the Sabbath is not explicitly commanded for New Testament Christians in texts like Romans 14:5-6, which suggest flexibility regarding holy days.
2. Do SDAs follow an old interpretation that Catholics and Reformers employed in reading the text?
Yes and no. The SDA Church shares some roots with older interpretations, particularly:

• Protestant Reformers: The SDA adopts many ideas from the Protestant Reformation, such as sola scriptura (Scripture alone) and opposition to the perceived authority of the Roman Catholic Church. They also use the historicist method of interpreting prophecy (e.g., Daniel and Revelation), which was common among Reformers like Martin Luther and John Calvin.
• Catholic Influence: The SDAs diverge from Catholic traditions significantly, especially in rejecting Catholic authority and sacraments. However, some of their apocalyptic emphasis indirectly stems from medieval Catholic interpretations of prophecy.

Thus, SDAs inherit a blend of older Protestant methods of interpretation but apply them distinctively, particularly regarding the Sabbath and health laws.
3. Romans 10 and Ephesians 2:8 in this context
Now, let’s examine the key passages to evaluate the SDA emphasis on works and grace.
Romans 10:9-10

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."​

This passage emphasizes belief and confession as the sole conditions for salvation. It does not mention the observance of the Sabbath, dietary laws, or other works-based requirements.
Ephesians 2:8-9

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."​

This passage explicitly teaches that salvation is a gift of grace, received through faith, and not based on works. The emphasis here aligns with the Protestant understanding of grace and challenges any suggestion that obedience to specific laws (e.g., Sabbath observance) contributes to salvation.
Tension Between Law and Grace
The SDA Church emphasizes obedience, especially the Ten Commandments, as evidence of faith. While they affirm salvation by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8), they also teach that obedience reflects true faith (similar to James 2:17, "faith without works is dead"). This creates tension with passages like Romans 10 and Ephesians 2, which highlight grace apart from works.
For example:

• Romans 6:14 states: "For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace."
• However, John 14:15 also records Jesus saying: "If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

The SDA Church interprets such passages to mean that grace saves, but obedience to God's laws—including Sabbath observance—is a natural response to salvation. Whether this approach is "correct" depends on how one balances the New Testament's teachings on law and grace.
Summary

1. The SDA Church's teachings represent a distinct interpretation of the Bible, blending Protestant ideas with their own focus on Old Testament law.
2. They are influenced by older Catholic and Reformer methods but adapt them uniquely, especially in their emphasis on the Sabbath and apocalyptic prophecy.
3. A literal reading of Romans 10:9 and Ephesians 2:8-9 emphasizes salvation as a gift of grace through faith, without mention of specific works like Sabbath observance. While works (obedience) may reflect true faith (James 2:17), they are not presented as the means of salvation in these texts.

Would you like a deeper comparison between SDA doctrines and the literal readings of other New Testament passages?

have it your way, You were warned, good luck with AI responses.